Reconstitution

[Furniture]

No SCRIT points for getting Silver/Gold/Platinum showing you're dedicated to personal wellbeing and fitness, which means you're less likely to be prone for injury. However you get a point for being voluntold (in most cases) as base honour guard or hang out at the mess meetings being a secretary. CAF doesn't care about fitness.

As you move up, the SCRIT points change. Volunteering gets you points if it shows you doing leadership related things. Running meetings, and accurately capturing meeting minutes is an important skill as you move up, ergo mess committee secretary gets points. Volunteering to set up chairs at a sports day shouldn't get you points past Cpl.

Is displaying leadership skills or running fast a better gauge of who will make a good MWO?

 

[Halifax Tar]

As you move up, the SCRIT points change. Volunteering gets you points if it shows you doing leadership related things. Running meetings, and accurately capturing meeting minutes is an important skill as you move up, ergo mess committee secretary gets points. Volunteering to set up chairs at a sports day shouldn't get you points past Cpl.

Is displaying leadership skills or running fast a better gauge of who will make a good MWO?

Can't we ask for both, good leadership and fitness?

 

[Quirky]

As you move up, the SCRIT points change. Volunteering gets you points if it shows you doing leadership related things. Running meetings, and accurately capturing meeting minutes is an important skill as you move up, ergo mess committee secretary gets points. Volunteering to set up chairs at a sports day shouldn't get you points past Cpl.

Is displaying leadership skills or running fast a better gauge of who will make a good MWO?

The people who were part of messes were generally awful at their primary jobs, but used the SCRIT points scam to weasel their way through the lower ranks. I never saw the top performers on the floor have time to organize TGIFs and other parties. They also never had time for PT during work hours. Being a trade SME doesn’t get you promoted in the CAF, being a loafer who plays the system to get the ‘ticks in the box’ gets you moving up. These people are now your clueless toxic leaders and why the middle has vanished.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Can't we ask for both, good leadership and fitness?

You can, if you prioritize them both. Instead, we have multiple other priorities that cost time and effort (material management, administration, various committees, health and wellness initiatives, awareness campaigns, etc.).

We are our own worst enemy in balancing the two.

 

[Furniture]

The people who were part of messes were generally awful at their primary jobs, but used the SCRIT points scam to weasel their way through the lower ranks.

So mess people doing that is bad, but fit people doing it is good?

Back in ancient times, when we had the EXPRES test, people got points for exempting the test, which meant people who played sports rather than worked had an advantage. Regardless of how the points are distributed, someone will find a way to game the system.

I never saw the top performers on the floor have time to organize TGIFs and other parties. They also never had time for PT during work hours.

Sounds like there is an issue at the unit level, maybe a few less "PT on your own time" EXPRES test exempters in leadership roles could have fixed that.

Being a trade SME doesn’t get you promoted in the CAF

You are absloutely correct, showing leadership qualities is what gets you promoted. The PER and PAR have two parts, performance (being a trade SME), and potential (leadership). If you are only displaying performance, but lack/don't show potential, you will not advance. There are too many people who are SME's but toxic leaders that have advanced because of attrition over the years.

I'm not arguing against fitness, I'm simply pointing out that a point for doing well on the FORCE test is not the difference between good and bad leaders advancing.

 

[Halifax Tar]

You can, if you prioritize them both. Instead, we have multiple other priorities that cost time and effort (material management, administration, various committees, health and wellness initiatives, awareness campaigns, etc.).

We are our own worst enemy in balancing the two.

I don't see anything you've posted to be a detriment to good leadership, so I will assume you mean this takes away from availability for fitness.

We have trades that are designed to look after things like material management and administration, but those trades have continually lost positions to other trades, if things like material management and admin are taking too much time away from ones core function perhaps the Army needs to look at the division of labour and have a come to Jesus moment and realize it needs to prioritize its Log and Admin tail and ensure that's fleshed out.

But I digress. I find your post interesting. I did a few years with CFJSR and we never seemed to have an issue getting in our hour of PT a day. But that was a decade ago.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The people who were part of messes were generally awful at their primary jobs, but used the SCRIT points scam to weasel their way through the lower ranks. I never saw the top performers on the floor have time to organize TGIFs and other parties. They also never had time for PT during work hours. Being a trade SME doesn’t get you promoted in the CAF, being a loafer who plays the system to get the ‘ticks in the box’ gets you moving up. These people are now your clueless toxic leaders and why the middle has vanished.

I think this is difference in service cultures. I haven't experienced what you have it comes to the affect that ones involvement in mess committees has has on ones SCRIT score.

As @Furniture expressed being a SME in ones role doesn't make you a leader of anything. I explain this to every one of my sailors. I can train a monkey to input the proper DRIMS TCodes repetitiously. That means very little to me. Show me why this afternoon I can make you an MS and you wont abuse your people, your role; or fall flat on your face.

I'm not arguing against fitness, I'm simply pointing out that a point for doing well on the FORCE test is not the difference between good and bad leaders advancing.

I agree whole heartedly. Fitness is a component of leadership, not leadership itself.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I don't see anything you've posted to be a detriment to good leadership, so I will assume you mean this takes away from availability for fitness.

None of those are, with proper time management and prioritization of tasks. The issue I see in some places is that there is a personal and institutional inability to do either. Which leads to CoCs hitting the easy button and dropping fitness in favour of getting the other checks in the box done first (or scrambling because the ball got dropped).

We have trades that are designed to look after things like material management and administration, but those trades have continually lost positions to other trades, if things like material management and admin are taking too much time away from ones core function perhaps the Army needs to look at the division of labour and have a come to Jesus moment and realize it needs to prioritize its Log and Admin tail and ensure that's fleshed out.

I will agree, to a point. My own argument would be that, as an institution, we are our own worst enemy when it comes to generating more work in those realms, without resourcing folks there to get the job done, all while being risk avoidant and adamant the sky will fall if it isn't completed by EFY.

They aren't complicated tasks, but when you add my point above into the mix, it becomes insurmountable in some environments.

But I digress. I find your post interesting. I did a few years with CFJSR and we never seemed to have an issue getting in our hour of PT a day. But that was a decade ago.

Oh we still do. I am grateful to be part of a unit that still prioritizes PT, but I am also wide eyed to individual sections making their own calls on what their Battle Rhythm demands of them, and often report times shift to 0730 and PT is a "own yime and mandatory Regimental PT only" scenario. Then again, we are also ⅔rds of what we were back then for personnel; and the work hasn't gotten any less demanding.

 

[Halifax Tar]

None of those are, with proper time management and prioritization of tasks. The issue I see in some places is that there is a personal and institutional inability to do either. Which leads to CoCs hitting the easy button and dropping fitness in favour of getting the other checks in the box done first (or scrambling because the ball got dropped).


I will agree, to a point. My own argument would be that, as an institution, we are our own worst enemy when it comes to generating more work in those realms, without resourcing folks there to get the job done, all while being risk avoidant and adamant the sky will fall if it isn't completed by EFY.

They aren't complicated tasks, but when you add my point above into the mix, it becomes insurmountable in some environments.


Oh we still do. I am grateful to be part of a unit that still prioritizes PT, but I am also wide eyed to individual sections making their own calls on what their Battle Rhythm demands of them, and often report times shift to 0730 and PT is a "own yime and mandatory Regimental PT only" scenario. Then again, we are also ⅔rds of what we were back then for personnel; and the work hasn't gotten any less demanding.

I think we're on the same side.

HHQs love to pile on writs and returns for data they can pull themselves from BOBJ, DRMIS or MM as a few examples.

 

[rmc_wannabe]

I think we're on the same side.

Wr definitely are.

HHQs love to pile on writs and returns for data they can pull themselves from BOBJ, DRMIS or MM as a few examples.

There is a reason we (rightly) disparage JOSG as "By Log, For Log"

 

[Furniture]

I think we're on the same side.

HHQs love to pile on writs and returns for data they can pull themselves from BOBJ, DRMIS or MM as a few examples.

Units can do it to themselves as well... Someone recently showed me Trinity's new leave and training tracker spreadsheet...

It's as if they forgot MM exists and has that data already.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Units can do it to themselves as well... Someone recently showed me Trinity's new leave and training tracker spreadsheet...

It's as if they forgot MM exists and has that data already.

It never ceases to amaze how we will duplicate efforts.

 

[Halifax Tar]

It's as if they forgot MM exists and has that data already.

I should also say the RCN has an unhealthy distrust of MM. It could be that many of us use the NOMAD version, I dont know.

Also NOMAD and this years PACE is FUBAR'd. I am dealing with a metric butt load of errors right now, as a PACE Manager, and it seems to be fleet wide.

 

[Furniture]

I should also say the RCN has an unhealthy distrust of MM. It could be that many of us use the NOMAD version, I dont know.

Also NOMAD and this years PACE is FUBAR'd. I am dealing with a metric butt load of errors right now, as a PACE Manager, and it seems to be fleet wide.

I'm not surprised to hear NOMAD is not playing nice with PACE. Hopefully they figure it out, and get a solution to the fleet soonish.

 

[PuckChaser]

Linking scrit points to the FORCE levels did not survive contact due to that.

Except somehow for CWO corps, which is borderline grievable because women and men have different standards for Platnium (most in that zone are around the same 45+ age group).

 

[Quirky]

As @Furniture expressed being a SME in ones role doesn't make you a leader of anything. I explain this to every one of my sailors. I can train a monkey to input the proper DRIMS TCodes repetitiously. That means very little to me. Show me why this afternoon I can make you an MS and you wont abuse your people, your role; or fall flat on your face.

The best Sgts, WOs etc I had were SMEs in their trade, they could effectively lead their people because they actually experienced what the troops are dealing with. They were often seen as people the juniors would go to for technical advice and leadership guidance. The worst leaders I had made their way through the ranks doing side hustles and gaming the point system. They were awful workers, avoided dirty jobs and focused on DLN courses and bake sales. There is almost no incentive to become a good SME, because that doesn't get you promoted, which in effect doesn't give you any pay raises. Why should a tech Cpl consistently bust their ass on the floor and in freezing temps when their peer hides in the back on the computer clicking through irrelevant CAF courses, or plans Whisky tasting night at the mess. If everyone strived to "be a leader", nothing would get done and units would be operationally ineffective. At some point someone needs to do the job.

 

[daftandbarmy]

The best Sgts, WOs etc I had were SMEs in their trade, they could effectively lead their people because they actually experienced what the troops are dealing with. They were often seen as people the juniors would go to for technical advice and leadership guidance. The worst leaders I had made their way through the ranks doing side hustles and gaming the point system. They were awful workers, avoided dirty jobs and focused on DLN courses and bake sales. There is almost no incentive to become a good SME, because that doesn't get you promoted, which in effect doesn't give you any pay raises. Why should a tech Cpl consistently bust their ass on the floor and in freezing temps when their peer hides in the back on the computer clicking through irrelevant CAF courses, or plans Whisky tasting night at the mess. If everyone strived to "be a leader", nothing would get done and units would be operationally ineffective. At some point someone needs to do the job.

So, just to be clear, none of those 'bad leaders' were hockey players, right?

 

[Halifax Tar]

The best Sgts, WOs etc I had were SMEs in their trade, they could effectively lead their people because they actually experienced what the troops are dealing with. They were often seen as people the juniors would go to for technical advice and leadership guidance. The worst leaders I had made their way through the ranks doing side hustles and gaming the point system. They were awful workers, avoided dirty jobs and focused on DLN courses and bake sales. There is almost no incentive to become a good SME, because that doesn't get you promoted, which in effect doesn't give you any pay raises. Why should a tech Cpl consistently bust their ass on the floor and in freezing temps when their peer hides in the back on the computer clicking through irrelevant CAF courses, or plans Whisky tasting night at the mess. If everyone strived to "be a leader", nothing would get done and units would be operationally ineffective. At some point someone needs to do the job.

If you feel like you aren't being correctly recognized come PAR season you have avenues to address that. What you cant do is try to correct other peoples PARs.

I think you will find high flyers and good leaders were solid experienced tradespeople, in general. There are always anecdotal exceptions. I can tell you from MS/MCpl and up for everyone of those promotions you will have detractors who don't think you deserve it. Fuck. Them. You do you.

I will tell you, just showing up and doing your job isn't enough to get you promoted. That gets you in the E zone. If you want to push over into the right side of the bell curve I would encourage you to take up SLT and post secondary education.

 

[MilEME09]

I have my PT scheduled at 3pm right now. Usually because I go home, pick up the kid and then we both go to the YMCA. That's a perfectly good sched. Also pre-lunch PT is a great one as well. But I will say this, end of day PT often turns into "get errands done for the evening early" time if its not supervised.

My Issue with unit PT from experience is a lot of people take the east button and do a run, especially if they like cardio. PT over the week needs to be balanced and full body. If you do a run 3-5 times a week, we are failing our troops, Usually if I run PT on a 3x schedule, monday is a run, wednesday is a circuit, and friday is a sport, depending on facilities and time of year I've done everything from soccer to water polo. Keeping a variety helps use muscles potentially missed from the other two days.

 

[FJAG]

If you do a run 3-5 times a week, we are failing our troops, Usually if I run PT on a 3x schedule, monday is a run, wednesday is a circuit, and friday is a sport, depending on facilities and time of year I've done everything from soccer to water polo. Keeping a variety helps use muscles potentially missed from the other two days.

Interesting discussion. For a starter, I spent 10 years in two major artillery units - 2 and 3 RCHA. They couldn't have a more different approach to physical fitness at the time. 3 RCHA basically had no daily fitness training, just a "sports afternoon" once a week. Let's simply say that the number of folks appearing in the gym for that were substantially less than on the regiment's org chart. We did do our annual fitness tests (1.5 mile run, pull ups etc) and our annual 2 x 10 miler. 2 RCHA on the other hand had a daily morning run as well as a sports afternoon and the annual fitness tests. Early on I opted to try the regimental water polo team as they practiced every day rather than do the run (full disclosure - I hate running with a passion) Our water polo training regime was very aggressive (e.g. try swimming ten or twenty lengths of a pool stopping at each end to haul yourself out to do ten pushups and diving back in - it didn't help much though, the RCR continuously beat us senseless) We got a lot more fitness exercises in during that hour than the folks doing the running.

My point is, that there was very little to choose from between the two units when it came to doing their job in the field and the pass rate for the annual tests. Sure, we didn't need to haul 100 lbs of gear around in those days - at most I probably carried 50 counting a C1, radio, batteries and my pers kit - but having people routinely hauling 100 lbs strikes me as a systemic failure that will lead to a lot of very damaged people in their older years.

That gets me to your point, which I totally agree with. A variety of physical activity is important and, while your schedule is probably looked down on by fitness gurus as being inadequate, I think its exactly the type of thing that most people can do, can stay with willingly and will provide health benefits in the long run.