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That's because the Navy is busy trying to figure out how to word their direction so that they can convey that they are following CDS direction while actually just doing their own thing.
Reconstitution
- Thread starter Kilted
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Mills Bomb
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These are some pretty interesting stories making news, but the truth is the government has essentially killed the Canadian military.
It's clear that this is no longer a military people many people want to join - I mean even the CAF is admitting it, the verdict amongst young people is out and overwhelmingly they know how much the CAF sucks these days. From long hours, lots of old junky equipment, very low pay, often no NVG's, radios that never work, mistreatment of veterans with limited help for those with PTSD, limited options if you're injured, boring human dog & pony show parades often for officers who have never even deployed, terrible isolated bases, DND public servants who make more and do less, Left-wing Liberal politics that don't really match the CAF, a controversial PM, and the fact the fed will throw this organization under the bus if it benefits them, it's painfully obvious to anyone who spends even 5-10 minutes researching the organization things clearly aren't how they should be in terms of a functioning military meant to protect the nation in full spectrum combat operations. Sorry that was a long rant - but these are things I hear literally ALL the time from people leaving.
I recently had a doctors appointment with my civilian doctor who told me he has seen an increase in young clients coming to him for medical appointments relating to joining the British and French militaries because they have no interest in the CAF.
The most senior members of this military seem too often have one specialty; telling us how big changes and improvements are "just over the horizon" and yet so few ideas ever come to fruition. They deliver on so little these days. There will always be some riding out the storm, and no doubt some people will keep trying the CAF as recruits. Without immediate massive pay increases, quality of life improvements, new equipment, and an overall revival of a real serious military type atmosphere I think we're stuck on a sinking ship in terms of both recruitment and retention. This isn't something that is realistically going to be fixed anytime soon.
It's clear that this is no longer a military people many people want to join - I mean even the CAF is admitting it, the verdict amongst young people is out and overwhelmingly they know how much the CAF sucks these days. From long hours, lots of old junky equipment, very low pay, often no NVG's, radios that never work, mistreatment of veterans with limited help for those with PTSD, limited options if you're injured, boring human dog & pony show parades often for officers who have never even deployed, terrible isolated bases, DND public servants who make more and do less, Left-wing Liberal politics that don't really match the CAF, a controversial PM, and the fact the fed will throw this organization under the bus if it benefits them, it's painfully obvious to anyone who spends even 5-10 minutes researching the organization things clearly aren't how they should be in terms of a functioning military meant to protect the nation in full spectrum combat operations. Sorry that was a long rant - but these are things I hear literally ALL the time from people leaving.
I recently had a doctors appointment with my civilian doctor who told me he has seen an increase in young clients coming to him for medical appointments relating to joining the British and French militaries because they have no interest in the CAF.
The most senior members of this military seem too often have one specialty; telling us how big changes and improvements are "just over the horizon" and yet so few ideas ever come to fruition. They deliver on so little these days. There will always be some riding out the storm, and no doubt some people will keep trying the CAF as recruits. Without immediate massive pay increases, quality of life improvements, new equipment, and an overall revival of a real serious military type atmosphere I think we're stuck on a sinking ship in terms of both recruitment and retention. This isn't something that is realistically going to be fixed anytime soon.
Mills Bomb
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I forgot one of the biggest and most insane reasons why I've been seeing many people leave; spending their entire first enlistment without being fully trained because the courses they were promised never materialized. So they were a professional PAT recruit who spent 3 years picking up garbage, building mod tents, putting out cookies and powdered coffee, and just generally getting treated like trash doing something they never signed up for, while all their friends from high school are having a great time at college or university.
daftandbarmy
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stoker dave
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I don't think the government will grow the budget to match DND's requirements.
DND will shrink their requirements to match the budget. I think that is partly what this is about.
Submarines, military colleges, etc should all be nervous.
DND will shrink their requirements to match the budget. I think that is partly what this is about.
Submarines, military colleges, etc should all be nervous.
FJAG
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Serendipitously, I just started rereading Granatstein's book "Who Killed the Canadian Military". The short answer is, we all did.
I joined in 1965 and retired in 2009. The Canadian Military has died numerous times during that period and has always been reborn, weaker, smaller and more expensive. Throughout that period we have never lived under any military threat that would effect Canadians' way of life. Even now with a dysfunctional Russia and an expansionist China looming Canadians see no long term consequences that will descend on their children or children's children so as to merit sinking more funds into the military.
Just as bad, Canada's military leadership will not let go of their incessant infighting and belief that the status quo will be just fine with a little rearranging of deck chairs and a bit more cash.
The problems the military is facing with recruiting and retention and general job dissatisfaction is not new. It's been going on for decades with a short respite while everyone rolled up their sleeves to get the job done in Afghanistan.
Canada's top military is a moribund bureaucracy that will never solve its problems without a major shakeup. It will muddle through but in the end it will, once again, be weaker, smaller and more expensive.
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So basically, based on Canadian history, you are saying that we need a major war to fix this.Serendipitously, I just started rereading Granatstein's book "Who Killed the Canadian Military". The short answer is, we all did.
I joined in 1965 and retired in 2009. The Canadian Military has died numerous times during that period and has always been reborn, weaker, smaller and more expensive. Throughout that period we have never lived under any military threat that would effect Canadians' way of life. Even now with a dysfunctional Russia and an expansionist China looming Canadians see no long term consequences that will descend on their children or children's children so as to merit sinking more funds into the military.
Just as bad, Canada's military leadership will not let go of their incessant infighting and belief that the status quo will be just fine with a little rearranging of deck chairs and a bit more cash.
The problems the military is facing with recruiting and retention and general job dissatisfaction is not new. It's been going on for decades with a short respite while everyone rolled up their sleeves to get the job done in Afghanistan.
Canada's top military is a moribund bureaucracy that will never solve its problems without a major shakeup. It will muddle through but in the end it will be weaker, smaller and more expensive again.
FJAG
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Not really. Based on history, every time the war ends we go back to Step 0 again with the only byproduct being a whole lot of clapped out gear littering the armouries' floors and warehouses.
Mills Bomb
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I suspect you could be absolutely right. We could absolutely see things get even worse soon in some departments in the name of "Reconstitution" or however this goes down.
Officers have always been easy targets but the truth is even the most senior ranking in this organization are mostly powerless in making changes to things like funding or military culture to save the organization. As mentioned by another poster, it's a political problem now, Canadians made their choice, there's nothing anyone can really do right now and there's no realistic group of people running to take power and change this in a drastic way. Aside from the occasional rally, the Canadian military just isn't all that great when compared to other big NATO members and it will most likely stay this way for a long time to come, pending something truly unexpected and crazy happening.
This will just be one more storm to ride out for those who are too deep to quit right now, and also one more reason why most people just aren't interested in getting involved at this time.
Mills Bomb
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The powers that be actually thought this would be an "improvement" that would drive up recruiting. That's how out of touch these people are. I would tend to think that most military minded people knew these were controversial ideas. Of course nobody who unrolled this no-cost "improvement" is ever going to admit it's not working.
I'm all for allowing folks a little more freedom, a better quality of life, but "anything goes" just isn't military and the recruiting numbers seem to reflect that. But it's only one small part of a big series of problems.
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I laughed, then remembered how the HMCS Oriole got funding for major improvements to bring it up to basic safety standards last time we had funding cuts because it 'was a great recruiting tool' 'the Admiral insisted on it' etc etc. Way more value for money than a fire tug.
Based on the moustache pin ,the CRCN coin and the stupid Golden Snitch statue in the NCR convinced the RCN BGHS are just dead inside with no sense of aethetics, so expecting them to sing the praises of the new RCN HQ in Place du Portage and the inspiring nature of the brutalist architecture and concrete landscaping.
'Twitter first, buttons and bows always'.
A sustainable operational capability doesn't seem to even be in the top 5. I suspect some CPFs will self retire before I will, and we're about the same age.
OldSolduer
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You could have written this in 1975 - and still be totally correct. I am sure Mr. Campbell and many others from the 60s and 70s can attest to that.
The more things change...
Just go look at the common tasks to all and the CA specific ones. Most of that is there.
Also Bands. While vague there are tea leaves easily read in this directive.
Are you asking if the CAF will be participating? The answer is yes.
Maybe if we would finally just tell musicians that they have to be dual trade and hold them accountable like the rest of the forces, than this might be less of an issue.
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I don't know that pay increases do much for new entries. New equipment and a clear mission statement would probably go further with getting people in the front door and keeping a hold of them for a couple of years. Quality of life and pay increases will dictate if they want to stick around and turn it into a career.
daftandbarmy
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