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Reconstitution

Eye In The Sky said:
Why limit that to just Sgts and PO2s?

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Halifax Tar said:
So make the CO a member of the wardroom ?

Maybe this disconnection from the rest of the team is part of the problem. Just because Nelson and Beatty did it means it's still a valid tradition.

C&POs gets by just fine with the 'Swain.
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No. I was on USN ships where the CO is a member of the Wardroom. All that ment was that most of the officers hid in their cabins and only came out to eat or go on watch.

Especially for the combat officers, the CO is in your face a lot and getting that break from the old man/woman is critical for mental well being. It’s also important for the CO to have their own private area to unwind.

The CO’s relationship to the officers is nowhere similar to the Coxswain’s relationship to the lower deck.
 
FSTO said:
No. I was on USN ships where the CO is a member of the Wardroom. All that ment was that most of the officers hid in their cabins and only came out to eat or go on watch.

Especially for the combat officers, the CO is in your face a lot and getting that break from the old man/woman is critical for mental well being. It’s also important for the CO to have their own private area to unwind.

The CO’s relationship to the officers is nowhere similar to the Coxswain’s relationship to the lower deck.
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Then maybe COs need to learn to stop being tyrants, like USN COs, and learn to be mentors and leaders.

If your people won't be social with you, you're probably doing something wrong.
 
Halifax Tar said:
Then maybe COs need to learn to stop being tyrants, like USN COs, and learn to be mentors and leaders.

If your people won't be social with you, you're probably doing something wrong.
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You haven’t been reading Navy News and see all the USN CO’s being relieved of command for bad behaviours have you.

No system is perfect, but I think our system doesn’t need that radical of a change. (that and 8.00 will get you a Starbucks at Carling)

I’ve had many a fantastic CO who ran a happy ship and was invited to the Wardroom a lot. But both them and the officers valued their own socializing spaces.
 
dapaterson said:
Are you suggesting removing the "Asshole" PO from MARS training?
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NWO ;)

FSTO said:
You haven’t been reading Navy News and see all the USN CO’s being relieved of command for bad behaviours gave you.

I’ve had many a fantastic CO who ran a happy ship and was invited to the Wardroom a lot. But both them and the officers valued their own socializing spaces.
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Do we need a more responsive mechanism to pull a CO that's dick ? Yes. That's that the point here.

We need a culture change in the CAF. And if part that is putting the COs in with common gentry so be it. I love having the Swain in the mess. You get to ask questions and get deeper answers to things. We also manage to respect their position and given them a breather when they need it. It's common that in C&POs it's an open space speak your mind, it's what makes the place sacred.

I think this could be an opportunity for JOs and HODs to have the same experience and a better relationship with their COs.

Wanna know when you have a bad CO ? Find out how often they were invited to C&POs for a meal. My last one was never given the invite. Not once.
 
Halifax Tar said:
NWO ;)



Do we need a more responsive mechanism to pull a CO that's dick ? Yes. That's that the point here.

We need a culture change in the CAF. And if part that is putting the COs in with common gentry so be it. I love having the Swain in the mess. You get to ask questions and get deeper answers to things. We also manage to respect their position and given them a breather when they need it. It's common that in C&POs it's an open space speak your mind, it's what makes the place sacred.

I think this could be an opportunity for JOs and HODs to have the same experience and a better relationship with their COs.

Wanna know when you have a bad CO ? Find out how often they were invited to C&POs for a meal. My last one was never given the invite. Not once.
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Well Tar we’ll just have to agree to disagree on this point.
 
Don’t forget the Coxn isn’t with all the lower deckers just the POs and above. There is value in keeping the boss away from lower ranks as people need breaks. Especially on a ship where your personal space is measured in feet.
 
Having been on both sides of this fence, I can see the perceived merit of "Command Teams" and a "Chief's Corps"... but not enough to heartily endorse it.

Do we need our Senior WOs thinking strategically and communicating institutionally? Possibly, as it's definitely a huge time saver getting the ideas flowing and then put to paper.

That said:

Your "Command Team" partner isn't your stand in. I have a great respect for my Tp WO, but having been one myself, I know where the demarcation point is between our Leadership and the position of Command. My Tp WO can lead, and does so with the kind of charisma and mentorship that you can't put a price on; but ultimately it is the job of the Comd to own decisions and be the face of that decision.

Part of that is doing the Staff work needed and making the administration seamless to allow that charisma and mentorship the time and space to work miracles.

I see too often at the Senior levels CWOs and MWOs being along for the ride; almost Orwellian in the sense that most of the Farm can't tell if they're Pig or Man. I have to wonder how much of this has been adopted from working closely with out Southern Neighbours, who seem to love filling Staff HQs with 3-5-2-2-% NCO positions.

Frankly, if the want is for our Snr NCOs and WOs to be effective leaders; let them lead, leet them mentor, and let them advise when needed. Does that require them to be a Capt Lite TM when it comes to Staff work? Probably not. Does that mean they are the CO's parrot to "piggyback off of..." please God no...
 
Eaglelord17 said:
Don’t forget the Coxn isn’t with all the lower deckers just the POs and above. There is value in keeping the boss away from lower ranks as people need breaks. Especially on a ship where your personal space is measured in feet.
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What do submariners do?
 
daftandbarmy said:
What do submariners do?
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Submarines and surface ships work differently. Submarines have small, self selected and highly trained crews that operate more like aircrew. Surface ships, with 220-250 people have a different vibe. I have been on happy ships and unhappy ships. The difference had nothing to do with the CO not being part of the Wardroom and everything to do with the CO being a good leader.
 
daftandbarmy said:
What do submariners do?
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No idea, never was one. Even though I considered it, after getting a tour of those death tubes I want nothing to do with it. Nothing but respect for those that want to, but you literally couldn’t pay me to serve on one of those.
 
SeaKingTacco said:
Submarines have small, self selected and highly trained crews that operate more like aircrew.
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I think the highlighted point is the key. Unless things have changed recently, you need to apply to be a submariner. Then you need to qualify for your dolphins.

Folks who made it through all of that successfully tend to be pretty motivated.
 
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