Recruitment advice please

[Freefall1]

I recently just stumbled upon this site, and I'm hoping someone out there can help.
First off I served about 4 years until my release in 2002, joined when I was 19. Here it is 10 years later and I am trying to enroll again, possibly into a different trade. The problem is I was released under a 5f, not good I know. I've never been charged military or civilian with any sort of crime whatsoever, and my recruiter says I qualify entirely for pretty much any trade I choose ( as long as its open). Bypassing basic as well. (Which I would have no problem doing over). But the 5f may stop me from reenlisting. At this point my file has been sent to Ottawa for further review and a decision, but I'm not holding my breath that things will work out in my favor. The short time I did spend in 10 years ago I was pretty much a waste of time. I swept floors for 2 of those years without a course, and in the end did not want to be there. When I did finally get a course, at that time I was too immature to take advantage of it and eventually gave up and was released on the account of my " Not giving a crap attitude". Since then I've worked Union construction jobs making decent money, had 3 children and got married. I don't drinki or smoke (anything), and I live a clean lifestyle. A far cry from the 20 year old kid with no responsibilities. I finished my high school, got into better shape than anyone I know, and upgraded to colledge as an on call paramedic. Problem is jobs are scarce, even for someone as hard working as myself. But now comes the time when family and work stability haunts my brain every day. And I feel that CF service is where I need to be. Unfortunately my mistakes as a kid are coming back to haunt me, even though a completely different man types this now.
So my question is has anyone else gone through this? Is there anything I can do? Unfortunately it's not possible to go to Ottawa and plead my case. I've heard that the 5f can be changed by the unit, but at the time it was deserving and I highly doubt anyone at the unit would remember me let alone change anything.
So any advice would be greatly appreciated, as this news to me hit pretty hard.

 

[Jarnhamar]

5F is pretty serious, you must really not have given a crap.

In your defense though I've known a few people who've spent 2 or 3 years waiting for a course sweeping floors- huge waste of time and money.

I hate telling people "call the recruiter " but in this case you'll want an official answer about your 5F and rejoining.

 

[Freefall1]

By no means would I try to offer any excuses for then, but I was weak minded and weak bodied, I was bullied big time by my instructors who plain out wanted me gone, but the ball was still in my court and I wasn't strong enough to find the drive to fix it, or give a crap. However if I did gain anything from the combat arms it was that drive that I found years later. And at this point theres nothing I can't do, espescially for my family. I'm the type of guy who finishes what I start. And my earlier enrollment into the CF I did not finish. That also bugs me. And I feel that I owe the CF a much better attempt.
I have submitted the application, and got in touch to my local recruiter this morning, who says that it's now in the hands of someone in Ottawa. Everything checks out fine except for that damn 5f. So I guess all I can do is hope for the best. Thanks for the reply.

 

[Jarnhamar]

and in the end did not want to be there. When I did finally get a course, at that time I was too immature to take advantage of it and eventually gave up and was released on the account of my " Not giving a crap attitude".

In all honesty I would have "bullied" you out of the army too- though the word bullied would probably be better replaced with identifying characteristics which are undesirable in a future soldier.

It's probably salt on an open wound but it's likely a good thing that you DID get kicked out of the CF because people with your same old attitude pass basic training and their trades course and end up to be a burden on the system. For future reference I wouldn't throw out the "my instructors bullied me" comment because while you may even possibly admit it was deserved it still sounds like an excuse.

On the bright side it looks like what little exposure to the CF you DID have set you up for a pretty decent life (wife job kids work) you sound like you've matured and are ready to come back to us.  Some lessons are harder to learn than others.

Beyond calling the recruiting center (always write down the time, date, who you talked to and the details of the conversation for personal reference)  I would go to one of the recruiting centers and ask to speak with someone in person. Take the family to the war museum in Ottawa and swing by 66 Slater street recruiting center and ask them in person.
It's easier to blow someone off on the phone and the recruiting center deals with tons and tons of calls many of which are wastes of time so show them that you're serious - make the effort and go see them in person.  It's "up to someone in Ottawa?" well find out who it is up to. Contact them directly and ask them to keep you int he loop. Be active, if you want back in you may have to fight for it. 

 

[Freefall1]

Yeah I defenately used that term "Bullied" as what I thought was going on then. Like I said, Young and Immature. I'm on the east coast here, and have been conversing with a Sgt. at my local recruiting center. He mentioned it could be up to a year to hear anything back. But I'm wondering if theres anyone else other that that perticular recruiter that I could even send a formal letter to? I imagine it's easy for some guy in Ottawa to say NO based on a 10 year old past. But after all it is a job application, and I would like the chance to address it more personally and up to date.

 

[Jarnhamar]

A year is a long time to wait to hear word back if it is even possible. There's something called a 'staff check' which is basically just unofficially asking someone if something is even possible before you formally ask (which takes longer). I'll pretend I'm someone semi-important and see if I can make a few calls to see if 5Fs are reversible (if so what's required) and that will hopefully be a little quicker than a year. I'll PM you my email address, shoot me an email in a week and check with me/remind me.

 

[The_Falcon]

A similar question was asked in this thread  http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/103716.0, DAOD 5002-1 is your official reference. http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dao-doa/5000/5002-1-eng.asp  To sum up and skip to the part you are interested in, if you were released 5(f) then you are waiting for a CDS waiver for re-enrolment to be approved/denied. 

In accordance with QR&O paragraphs 6.01(2) and (4), unless special authority is personally obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), an applicant with former service shall not be enrolled if released:

as medically unfit;
for inefficiency;
with a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act; or
for misconduct.
For applicants with former CF service, the above includes any release from the CF under Item 1 (misconduct), 2 (unsatisfactory service), 3(a) (medically unfit for further service), 5(d) (not advantageously employable) or 5(f) (unsuitable for further service) of the Table to QR&O article 15.01, Release of Officers and Non-Commissioned Member. For applicants with former service in any other military force or the RCMP, the above includes any reason analogous to one of these Items.

Note – All previous CDS orders, instructions and authorizations that provided authority for officers subordinate to the CDS to authorize the enrolment of applicants with former service have been revoked.

Would you like his personal email and phone number to ask him whats taking so long?

 

[Freefall1]

That seems pretty cut and dry, but there must be someone I can appeal to directly? Send a letter make a call? It's been 10 years, and I would hope that whoever makes the call would want to see all the facts. Or is there a pardon process I mabye should want to look at?

 

[MMSS]

That seems pretty cut and dry, but there must be someone I can appeal to directly? Send a letter make a call? It's been 10 years, and I would hope that whoever makes the call would want to see all the facts. Or is there a pardon process I mabye should want to look at?

From the CDS site, you contact them via mail or email:

To contact the Office of the Chief of Defence Staff

Mailing Address:

General Walter Natynczyk
Chief of the Defence Staff
National Defence Headquarters
Major-General George R. Pearkes Building
101 Colonel By Drive
Ottawa, Ontario, Canada
K1A 0K2

Email:

Please use the electronic submission form on the following page: http://www.forces.gc.ca/site/contact-eng.asp#form.

Under the 'recipient' field, select 'Public Inquiries'.
In your message text, request your query be directed to: Office of the Chief of the Defence Staff.