Redesignation of the Kingston class???

[Ex-Dragoon]

According to a PO that I know that works at MARCOM, he is saying there is talk of redesignating the Kingston class to an OPV. Yeah...I am still in shock, anyone else hear this and can confirm or deny it?

 

[navymich]

OPV?  Operation Patrol Vessel?  (oh wait, I'm not navres anymore.  I can pick on them now right?  OPV = Outdated Patrol Vessel ;D)

What does the change of designation mean? 

I'll ask some sources around here and see if I can track anything down.

 

[aesop081]

According to a PO that I know that works at MARCOM, he is saying there is talk of redesignating the Kingston class to an OPV. Yeah...I am still in shock, anyone else hear this and can confirm or deny it?

:rofl:

Is that how we increase combat power in the CF these days ? Changing the designation of things ?

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

:rofl:

Is that how we increase combat power in the CF these days ? Changing the designation of things ?

Seems that way....I am betting its not the case but the military has done some strange things in the past.

 

[IN HOC SIGNO]

Seems that way....I am betting its not the case but the military has done some strange things in the past.

Let us know how the enquiry turns out. I wonder if these will ever deploy to look for mines overseas?

 

[Stoker]

Let us know how the enquiry turns out. I wonder if these will ever deploy to look for mines overseas?

I doubt if the ships will ever be deployed for sweeping since the ships don't do that anymore, however they are capable for deployment as a mine hunting platform. i.e route survey and as a diving platform. They have been worked up in the intensive "MOST" mine warfare readiness organization. Stranger things have happened.

 

[Cloud Cover]

:rofl:

Is that how we increase combat power in the CF these days ? Changing the designation of things ?

CP-140 Anti-Tank Bomber

 

[gaspasser]

CP-140 Anti-Tank Bomber

CP-140ASP (Anti-terrorist Surveillance Platform)

 

[aesop081]

CP-140 Anti-Tank Bomber

Well..it is possible, the USN does mount AGM-65s on its P-3C....... ;D

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Maybe they need to put a 30mm on it for tank busting...

 

[aesop081]

Maybe they need to put a 30mm on it for tank busting...

My Kingdom for SLAM-ER.....

[/hijack]

What would the reasoning behind changing from MM to OPV be ? I dont see a change in the ship's fitting out ? It barely fullfils a military mission as it is.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I am not sure either why, I have my doubts that such a thing is happeneing but these days you never know.

 

[aesop081]

I am not sure either why, I have my doubts that such a thing is happeneing but these days you never know.

I know but hypotheticaly speaking.

I know what the official pubs say is the role of the MCDVs.  But ballancing that with reality, they serve more as training ships for MARS than anything else. I dont see the Orca-class changing that too much. The weapons fit is light and archeic.  The mission kits are few and far between and i dont, IMHO, beleive they are suited for minesweeping wither. If SCF is to go ahead, we are going to need a capable litoral support capability and i dont think the MCDVs are it.  Speaking purely of OPV, it is something they are not, again in my opinion.

i know we've touched this before, but what REAL military role do the MCDVs fill ?

 

[navymich]

i know we've touched this before, but what REAL military role do the MCDVs fill ?

Route survey.  BOIV Ops.  Escort.

But ballancing that with reality, they serve more as training ships for MARS than anything else. I dont see the Orca-class changing that too much.

As of right now, the ORCAs will not be doing MARS IV, which leaves that still up to the MCDVs.

 

[aesop081]

Route survey.  BOIV Ops.  Escort.

I see the first 2.....but the last one i go  :rofl:

What are they going to escort ? they do not have the speed to escort anything much less chase any attackers and even if they did, they are so inadequately armed that they wouldnt be able to do much.

If we need an escort in litoral waters, might i suggest that a FPB would be better suited.  The MCDV is not an open ocean escort....so what does that leave ?

 

[navymich]

I knew you would comment on the escort one, and we've talked about it before.  Whether they are adequate for the job or not, they are still tasked with it.

 

[aesop081]

  Whether they are adequate for the job or not, they are still tasked with it.

I'm not debating their task...i'm debating their suitability for it.  Like i said in another thread, i have no sailing time on them, been on Whithorse once in port and read what the 106 says about them several times. Thats the extent of my experience with them.

But how about answering my questions? What could they realistcaly do that makes them "escorts" ?

 

[aesop081]

Nevermind......something better done elsewhere

 

[Stoker]

I kno but hypotheticaly speaking.

I know what the official pubs say is the role of the MCDVs.  But ballancing that with reality, they serve more as training ships for MARS than anything else. I dont see the Orca-class changing that too much. The weapons fit is light and archeic.  The mission kits are few and far between and i dont, IMHO, beleive they are suited for minesweeping wither. If SCF is to go ahead, we are going to need a capable litoral support capability and i dont think the MCDVs are it.  Speaking purely of OPV, it is something they are not, again in my opinion.

i know weve tuched this before, but what REAL military role do the MCDVs fill ?

While they do a lot of MARS IV training, it just one small part of what they do. With the advent of the new ORCA's, some of the heavy MARS training will be done by these platforms and give the MCDV's a well deserved break, that was relayed to me by VENTURE staff,now of course that could changed. Your right that they are not well suited for the mechanical minesweeping role, but the platform is pretty versatile and the Navy is finding more and more different things for the ships to do. As for mission fits they have 3 types of route survey fits, BOIV, DSIS, Rapid Environmental Assessment and not to mention diving, Phantom ROV and SUBSMASH loadouts. For what is costs to put a frigate to sea vice what it costs to put a MCDV to sea, the ships are very cost effective.
As for what real military role the MCDV's fill, the ships do go to Europe and take part in NATO exercises and take part in many things a operational frigate does. I agree with you that we need a litoral support capability and the MCDV's were never meant for that. They are not going ahead with the midlife modernization of the class, and nor are they going to extend the hull. I would say that the ships have another 10 years in them and the reserves will receive a new hull of a larger type of ship, probally a corvette class.

 

[Cronicbny]

While they do a lot of MARS IV training, it just one small part of what they do. With the advent of the new ORCA's, some of the heavy MARS training will be done by these platforms and give the MCDV's a well deserved break, that was relayed to me by VENTURE staff,now of course that could changed. Your right that they are not well suited for the mechanical minesweeping role, but the platform is pretty versatile and the Navy is finding more and more different things for the ships to do. As for mission fits they have 3 types of route survey fits, BOIV, DSIS, Rapid Environmental Assessment and not to mention diving, Phantom ROV and SUBSMASH loadouts. For what is costs to put a frigate to sea vice what it costs to put a MCDV to sea, the ships are very cost effective.
As for what real military role the MCDV's fill, the ships do go to Europe and take part in NATO exercises and take part in many things a operational frigate does. I agree with you that we need a litoral support capability and the MCDV's were never meant for that. They are not going ahead with the midlife modernization of the class, and nor are they going to extend the hull. I would say that the ships have another 10 years in them and the reserves will receive a new hull of a larger type of ship, probally a corvette class.

Who will man these corvettes? Certainly not the people we don't have now. The reserves needs to address some personnel issues before we even think of manning a larger class of ship. In fact, maybe we should address these issues before we end up with an eight ship MCDV fleet on both coasts. Just MHO.