Regular Officer Training Plan (ROTP)-RMC 2000 - 2018 [Merged]

[Loachman]

Flying training in Moose Jaw is a posting, so, presuming that you were to be married, that part should be easy.

Be aware that, not only is this a long process with an uncertain outcome regarding aircraft type and first operational posting, the uncertainty of the outcome is compounded by the simple fact that there is a high percentage of Pilot trainees who do not achieve their Wings.

Anyway, there is a bunch of existing threads here on a variety of subjects that will give you a better idea of what to expect.

 

[tree hugger]

In my experience (and I've been on both sides), I believe each couple needs to determine who's career will come first in the relationship.  As an army wife, I know that my career will always depend on where my husband is posted.  This means less options, less security and on occasion less money.  I've accepted this.  At the same time, I've married someone I love and who's career will bring me on a life long journey with new opportunities and new friends along the way.

 

[Carntsen]

Hello,
Earlier this week I accompanied my Son to Base Borden to complete his FORCE test and interview to join the Regular Reserves. He is 16 and going into grade 11. When we met with the recruiter he explained that he wanted to join the reserves to experience the Army to ensure this is what he wanted to do after finishing school. My own advise is that after grade 12, if he wants to remain in the CF he should be focued on RMC and not regular service.  When the recruiter heard 'RMC', he strongly suggested that he register for the co-op program and not the regular reserves.

In his explanation, the co-op program will have him serve 4 days per week during grade 11 second semeter in exchange for 4 high school credits. Upon completion he is 'Fully qualified'. If he was to go to the regular reserves it would take minimum 2.5 years to become 'fully qualified'.  He says the application for RMC would be submitted at the start of Grade 12 and would have him listed as 'Fully qualified'

My understanding is the 'Fully Qualified' refers to completing basic training. Other than the obvious army experience, I am not clear what advantage this has for RMC. Does it let him skip that first year prep and go direct into studies?  I suspect the benefit is not related to RMC, but regular service and allows you to enter into your career path training sooner.

I am hesitiant to let him take the co-op because if he opts for a non-military future, the 4 co-op credits might hurt his chances into other universities. 4 CF co-op credites versus Maths and Sciences.

Sorry to be long winded. I am not CF, and know very little of it. The recuiter speaks quickly and as-if I have full knowledge of the CF.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I am hesitiant to let him take the co-op because if he opts for a non-military future, the 4 co-op credits might hurt his chances into other universities. 4 CF co-op credites versus Maths and Sciences.

You are a smart man, hopefully it rubs off on your son.

Having the necessary math and science credits is equally (and maybe more so) required for RMC.

By the way, use of the term "Regular Reserves" will drive military purists to distraction.  Among the components of the Canadian Armed Forces are the "Regular Force" and the "Reserve Force".  We don't combine the terminology.  The sub-component of the Reserve Force that you are probably wanting to describe is the Primary Reserve.  The co-op program is simply an entry and training program for high school students to join some Primary Reserve units as an non-commissioned member.

 

[mariomike]

When the recruiter heard 'RMC', he strongly suggested that he register for the co-op program and not the regular reserves.

In his explanation, the co-op program will have him serve 4 days per week during grade 11 second semeter in exchange for 4 high school credits.

I am hesitiant to let him take the co-op because if he opts for a non-military future, the 4 co-op credits might hurt his chances into other universities. 4 CF co-op credites versus Maths and Sciences.

This may help,

All About Co-op (merged)
http://army.ca/forums/threads/1238.0
12 pages.

 

[RedcapCrusader]

With Co-Op, your son would be given credit for completing Basic Training so in the event he goes into full-time service, he would not need to repeat it. It will give him the drill and discipline as well as uniform and rank knowledge ahead of his peers - which is all part of advancing your career.

With respect to the credits, the credits awarded for Co-Op may not be eligible to be used for graduation. Example in Alberta you need 100 credits to graduate, but if you have 100 credits but not the required courses (Maths, Sciences, English, history) for graduation, you still don't graduate.

Your son, should he wish to pursue RMC should be achieving the highest level of classes possible.

EDIT: Fully Qualified refers to Basic training, environmental training, and occupational training which, in the reserves can take 2-3 years.

 

[DAA]

In the grand scheme of things, what does your child really want in life or what do you want for them?

If it's a simple run of the mill military experience/exposure/discipline kind of thing through either the Co-Op Program (if available in your area) or straight into the Primary Reserve (PRes), then by all means, it's a great and rewarding opportunity for someone his age.

If in the long term (ie; post Gr 12/graduating) they are "truly" interested in a military career as an Officer with a paid education through RMC, then I would say avoid joining the Co-Op or PRes, stick with your schooling, achieve the best possible marks they can.

 

[runormal]

Personal Story time:
I got an offer for ROTP - RMC in 2012 and I had just finished basic, in fact I was no where near where near trade qualified, I got the offer on my first day of my BMQ - L (The second course after basic), I still had one arguably two if you count driver wheel to be qualified. I turned it down because I wasn't sure what I wanted, but nevertheless...  I even put the transfer in while I was in the middle of basic... Still got processed, still had the interview, I made it quite clear I was still on basic Etc. My marks also had dropped between high school and University.

The only real benefit of being trade qualified that I'm aware was that if I could of got my CPL's (2 Yrs service + fully trade qualified).  I could of been paid 50k a year to attend school  ;D. I was still offered Pte 1, Which was pretty damn good to get everything paid for and a lot better than 95% of the students attending RMC. Obviously any experience gained as a reservist is beneficial to a career in the military, however at some point you and your son need to make a decision about how much experience you can get in such a short amount of time assuming your son is selected shortly after grade 12.

"Does it let him skip that first year prep and go direct into studies?  I suspect the benefit is not related to RMC, but regular service and allows you to enter into your career path training sooner."
The prep year isn't for everyone, some will cadets will start right at away in Kingston. You are more or less right with the full time basic regard with relations to quicker training. (Assuming your son is looking at the army reserves) The sooner you do your basic the sooner you can do your BMQ-L which is the sooner you can do your DP 1.0 (Developmental Period)  or your "Trades Course".

In my Opinion I wouldn't bother with the coop at all, you'd be better off taking math/science like you suggested. Plus doing the COOP will cut all chances of getting a grade 12 University Bird class to pull up the average. Furthermore your son could decided he wants to do the military, but if he doesn't get accepted then it was all for nothing. Your son could also decide he hates the military during the coop and then you are really in a pickle.

What I'd suggest, is do the reserves, go on the weekend basic and see if you like it. If you like it put in your component transfer at the beginning of grade 12. Select the option for ROTP. Continue with the career in the P-Res and hope for the best. If your son gets accepted into RMC , great if not now you still have all of your options on the civilian side. Furthermore should your son stick with the reserves while in university, he can get $2,000 of his tuition reimbursed each year for a maximum of $8,000 on top of his pay. The only thing to note that if your son doesn't get into RMC and is moving to a different city for school he will need to transfer units which takes some time. So if he gets declined from RMC he should put in a transfer immediately to transfer units, assuming he is moving citites.

Good luck

 

[Carntsen]

Thanks to all that replied.
He still has his head somewhat in the clouds, and does not have a clear career path yet. Well.. he thinks he does but it changes every few weeks.
My objective at the moment is just to ensure we don't choose a path that closes any doors on him.

It is sounding like the best approach is to skip the co-op, and let him continue with the 'Primary' Reserves. This will let him continue with his grade 11 and 12 schooling, while getting a taste of Army life. In a year from now, he should know better if RMC (or the CF) is for him and can decide where to apply.

 

[Carntsen]

Just a footnote... not that it really changes things.

We met with the School guidance today. They say that the 4 credits given can only be applied against your 'Elective'  credits and not any of the required courses. They advised that doing this would cause semester 1 to be loaded with the tough classes, so nothing compulsory is missed in semester 2. (SMCDSB ....Simcoe Muscoka Catholic)

This would make for a very difficult semester

 

[runormal]

Just a footnote... not that it really changes things.

We met with the School guidance today. They say that the 4 credits given can only be applied against your 'Elective'  credits and not any of the required courses. They advised that doing this would cause semester 1 to be loaded with the tough classes, so nothing compulsory is missed in semester 2. (SMCDSB ....Simcoe Muscoka Catholic)

This would make for a very difficult semester

Yup, and it would take away any chances at an easy elective (I.E Essay Writing, History, World Issues).

Furthermore he'd likely have to stay for a 5th year because he'd only have 4 4U credits, (Unless you did some tricky working around in grade 11 / summer school) and even then I don't know if that is a possibility. Summer school would be moot though, because then he can't do  his training  :facepalm:.

My only advice is to get the weekend basic out of the way in grade 11, as his grade 12 marks will be more important. However the grade 11 marks will be important in the event he doesn't have the grade 12 credit.

He could put all of his effort into high school and then do the reserves in university, but then he would have to juggle, living on his + school + social life + reserves BMQ. Been there done that it is more than do able but most students grades slip (especially during basic), which will likely make him lose any sort of scholarship he earned in highschool (Assuming he doesn't get into RMC).

That being said the reserves is probably the one reason my marks were as good as there were because I knew I had such a limited amount to focus on studying so I had to make the most of my time.

All the best

 

[kolkim]

I was speaking to somebody of a higher rank tell me that they are removing art degrees as an entry standard for Officer trades. Has anybody heard of this?

 

[Underway]

Art (like Fine Art, Drama, Music) or Arts as in B.A. (like everything that isn't science or engineering).

Arts are hear to stay as Politics, Mil History, Mil studies and Psych are arts majors.  "Art" might be removed from certain trade choices depending on how the PSel, trade managers and TDO branches evaluate the success of those degree's.

 

[jaysfan17]

I think OP means Fine Arts, Drama and Music.

It would be stupid to get rid of B.A.

 

[geo]

Ummmmmm, although I did not finish with an arts degree (my sister did that), I do not believe in any reason for doing that. Lots of history and psychology grads in the officer corp.
A bachelors degree is more about training your mind to think than it is about any specific subject.

 

[Mick]

From an RMC standpoint, RMC has never offered fine arts degrees.  The Faculty of Arts does continue to offer B.A. programs in Business Admin, History, English, French, Economics, Politics, Military Psychology and Leadership, and Strategic Studies.

Personally, I've never met a CAF member who completed a fine arts degree as part of an entry plan, but that's just my personal experience.

 

[Underway]

From an RMC standpoint, RMC has never offered fine arts degrees.  The Faculty of Arts does continue to offer B.A. programs in Business Admin, History, English, French, Economics, Politics, Military Psychology and Leadership, and Strategic Studies.

Personally, I've never met a CAF member who completed a fine arts degree as part of an entry plan, but that's just my personal experience.

I know two Drama majors, one with a Masters.  Both are fine officers, top third easy.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Personally, I've never met a CAF member who completed a fine arts degree as part of an entry plan, but that's just my personal experience.

While it was many years ago and they are probably (like me) no longer serving, I knew officers who entered as DEOs with degrees in Music, Art History and one in Flower Arranging (okay, it was actually a BSc in Horticulture).  They all made fine officers.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

First things first: Blackadder, Horticulture, as your own post notes is B.Sc., and it is a real scientific degree. It is as close to an applied degree in biology as a B.Sc. in agricultural studies is.

Second, as regards fine arts degree: Aren't all Band officer required to have a degree in music? Let's face it, a degree in chemical engineering would not be of much use to them  .

 

[Blackadder1916]

First things first: Blackadder, Horticulture, as your own post notes is B.Sc., and it is a real scientific degree. . . .

I know that well.  The "flower arranging" comment was one that I used quite often to jokingly refer to that particular officer (who was a very good friend).  Prior to joining, that's what she did for a living.  She related that the recruiters suggested that she (as a Log branch officer) had the ideal educational background to become an Ammunition Technical Officer - guess not a lot of Loggies have science degrees.  Naturally of course, she was slotted as Finance.