Release Item 5F - Questions Release or Reenrollment (Merged)

[sgt_stewart]

Once again this topic shows it's very ugly head.

I can't say enough good things about CFRC in processing my application. They are consumate professionals who handle things as much as they can.

Can someone answer me this question?
Why has it taken CFRGHQ since November of 2011 to review and process a 5F waiver?

It's been almost 1 year since I decided to enroll and I cannot believe that the process is half over. Once the waiver is signed off, it then has to go to the CDS in Ottawa.

The ironic thing is that my former unit admitted that the 5F was issued by mistake and I still have to go through this monumental level of red tape to enroll. I am a former member who will need minimal training and knows the system back, front and sideways.

Please help me as the frustration meter is almost at maximum.

  :facepalm:

 

[aesop081]

Please help me as the frustration meter is almost at maximum.

Unless the CDS reads this and posts, no one here can help you. A 5F re-enrolement requires his signature and no one else's.

If your frustration meter is pegged, well, its going to have to stay there until the big cheese does his thing.

 

[sgt_stewart]

It hasn't even gotten that far yet. It's stuck at CFRGHQ at Borden. According to the MCC at the recruiting centre, 5F waivers are on the lowest priority. Why can't they get there shit together and get someone on the 5F waivers and review these files. I know they are extremely busy, but come on. I can understand things taking a long time to get through the supreme HQ in Ottawa, but this is a lower HQ and things should move faster.

 

[PuckChaser]

CF is full, we don't desperately need people, so rightfully 5F waivers are a low priority. Even if they made a mistake with issuing yours, whats done is done, you picked a bad time to try to get a waiver.

 

[agc]

It hasn't even gotten that far yet. It's stuck at CFRGHQ at Borden. According to the MCC at the recruiting centre, 5F waivers are on the lowest priority. Why can't they get there shit together and get someone on the 5F waivers and review these files. I know they are extremely busy, but come on. I can understand things taking a long time to get through the supreme HQ in Ottawa, but this is a lower HQ and things should move faster.

It's not a matter of them getting thier act together.  It's a matter of the General not wanting to see waivers of this type when he has a glut of well qualified applicants.  Unfortunately for you, this will happen on his time, and not your preferred schedule.  If you don't mind sharing, why was the release item a mistake?  If the CO agrees it was a mistake, why doesn't he change it?

 

[The_Falcon]

It hasn't even gotten that far yet. It's stuck at CFRGHQ at Borden. According to the MCC at the recruiting centre, 5F waivers are on the lowest priority. Why can't they get there crap together and get someone on the 5F waivers and review these files. I know they are extremely busy, but come on. I can understand things taking a long time to get through the supreme HQ in Ottawa, but this is a lower HQ and things should move faster.

Seriously?

CFRC's are being closed, and people on Class B (at CFRC's and other units) are being let go.  At the same time we are trying to process litterally thousands of people, CFRGHQ has their own share of responsibilities like processing and QCing ETPs, PLAR requests, Waivers, Selections/Productions, etc.  Bad release waivers are at the bottom of the list and that won't change.  Why should they put up in priority?  Because you want it?

 

[sgt_stewart]

The CO agrees that it was a unit mistake and that I should have been released 4A. I understand that CFRGHQ is very busy and I am not looking to expedite the process. All that it should be looked after in a timely manner. The Career Officer who is looking after my file says that I am the 3rd 5F that has been to the recruiting centre and that they are extremely frustrated at the process as well. It used to be that 5F's and other non favourable release items were examined at the local level, i.e.. the recruiting centre. However, that all changed back in 2011 when the CDS decided that these files needed to be reviewed trough his office. All the support from the former unit means squat until someone in Walt's office gets to it.

 

[DAA]

The CO agrees that it was a unit mistake and that I should have been released 4A.

5F release from the Res F is normally a result of being placed on the "non-effective strength" list, not completing the proper release admin procedures and thus being considered an administrative burden.  A 4A release, which you state above that your former CO agrees with, is "On Request - Entitled to an Immediate Annuity".  If this isn't the case, then your unit needs to seriously rethink what they are telling you.

Nevertheless, good luck getting the release item changed.

 

[aesop081]

I am not looking to expedite the process.

it should be looked after in a timely manner.

What is it that you want ?

It used to be that 5F's and other non favourable release items were examined at the local level, i.e.. the recruiting centre.

How it used to be doesn't matter.

All the support from the former unit means squat until someone in Walt's office gets to it.

The CDS's plate is pretty full. Take a look at the number of greivances with "CDS decision pending" on them for one example of what he's got going on beyond all the other stuff.

I know you're not liking it but you are at the bottom of the priority list. You can wait or you can move on to something else.

 

[sgt_stewart]

Interesting feedback.

What I am really waiting for is my 5F waiver to be reviewed at CFRGHQ. Its only been with them for 8 months or so.

CDN Aviator, answer me this. In all honesty, do you think that the CDS himself will review my file?

The MCC is as frustrated as I am and has been forthright with their frustrations as well. They are confident that once it gets reviewed by the PSO at CFRGHQ and goes to the next level it will be delegated back downward to the local level and then I get enrolled. 

 

[aesop081]

CDN Aviator, answer me this. In all honesty, do you think that the CDS himself will review my file?

Who cares. Wether it is him or staff, either one is busy with files that are more important.

The MCC is as frustrated as I am and has been forthright with their frustrations as well.

What the MCC thinks might make you feel better/ that you are important but matters not.

They are confident that once it gets reviewed by the PSO at CFRGHQ and goes to the next level it will be delegated back downward to the local level and then I get enrolled.

Whatever is going to happen (the responsibility for 5F re-enrollemtn lies with only one place) you will have to wait for. Save yourself an ulcer and quit bitching. You're just another guy trying to get back in. That's all.

 

[armyvern]

Perhaps the Mods could do a thread merge with this one here ...

Same individual / Same subject = perhaps it'll lessen the questions be asked if they've been answered in the other thread ...

Re: Timelines on reversing a 5F

 

[George Wallace]

Done.........and interestingly enough........both started by the same person.

 

[aesop081]

Just in case anyone needs a reminded:

DAOD 5002-1 Enrolment

Former Service in the CF, Other Military Force or RCMP

In accordance with QR&O article 6.02, Action Prior to Enrolment of Persons with Former Service, an applicant with former service in the CF, any other military force or the RCMP is required to:

state the particulars of that service;
state the cause of their release; and
produce their release papers.

In accordance with QR&O paragraphs 6.01(2) and (4), unless special authority is personally obtained from the Chief of the Defence Staff (CDS), an applicant with former service shall not be enrolled if released:

as medically unfit;

for inefficiency;

with a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent, other than a conduct assessment below “good” or equivalent that was based upon conviction for which a pardon has been granted under the Criminal Records Act; or

for misconduct.

For applicants with former CF service, the above includes any release from the CF under Item 1 (misconduct), 2 (unsatisfactory service), 3(a) (medically unfit for further service), 5(d) (not advantageously employable) or 5(f) (unsuitable for further service) of the Table to QR&O article 15.01, Release of Officers and Non-Commissioned Member. For applicants with former service in any other military force or the RCMP, the above includes any reason analogous to one of these Items.

 

[ZacLeChasseur]

''A 5(d) release is not something given out just because "that's what they were giving".''

Sorry but yes that what they said to me, I did nothing wrong to receive the Not Advantageously Employable status, I called my unit and they did a lot a research for me and thats what they said, if I was a POS and they kicked me out with a 5d they would have told me that

Perhaps its because I only had my BMQ qualification and left before being fully qualified

They told me if I had quit only 3 weeks later, Id have a 4c

 

[aesop081]

Sorry but

Whichever. I posted for you the definition of a 5(d) release so go ahead and decided which part of it applies to you.

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/106325/post-1149683.html#msg1149683

Given that you were not able to get to your unit for training, I would say you were not advantageously employable alright.

 

[MARS]

Whichever. I posted for you the definition of a 5(d) release so go ahead and decided which part of it applies to you.

http://Forums.Army.ca/forums/threads/106325/post-1149683.html#msg1149683

Given that you were not able to get to your unit for training, I would say you were not advantageously employable alright.

I agree.  Having read the OP's original post, it would meet my criteria for not being advantageously employable if I were the CO. 

 

[Blackadder1916]

I agree.  Having read the OP's original post, it would meet my criteria for not being advantageously employable if I were the CO. 

Not necessarily.  I can only speak from experience when release procedures from the PRes were governed by CFAO 49-11.  I believe that order has been superceded by a CMP Instr but I haven't been able to find a link to it.  While I'm sure that improvements have been made in reserve administration (which in many cases were very shoddy), I would find it difficult that some of the basic principles were significantly changed.

Back in those old days, before a compulsory release (items 1(b), 1 (d), 2, 5(d), 5(e) or 5(f) ) could be actioned a "Notice of Intent to Recommend Release" had to be sent to the member who had a (very short) timeline in which to object.  Unless the member was declared NES (and if the poster's tale is accepted at face value, he requested voluntary release before being declared NES) then a "Notice of Intent to Recommend Release" under items 2, 5(d) or 5(f) would not normally be given until the procedures outlined in CFAO 26-17 (RW and C&P) had been complied with.  Again, his tale does not include any details about being subject to remedial measures.  If, as he stated, he requested voluntary release then (again, the way it used to be before the CFAO was superceded) the only release item that could (or should have) been given is 4(c).

Does this negate the reality that his records (as he has been told) indicate he received a 5(d) release and must seek CDS sign-off as a condition of re-enroling?  No. he must still jump through that hoop.

 

[ZacLeChasseur]

I agree.  Having read the OP's original post, it would meet my criteria for not being advantageously employable if I were the CO. 

So because I wanted to quit, me, at 16yrs old to finish my high school and start Cegep (QC), Im not advantageously employable......I requested to leave, it was voluntary. I was not on the NES list and I wanted to still have chance to get back in the army later so I decided to quit to not be on this list.

Now I'm 23 years old and my mistake which makes me unable to join the CF is that when I was 16, I joined, left after completion of my BMQ, not during a course or anything, not because I did something terribly wrong and then they gave me a 5d when I was sure that I was leaving ''honorably''


So If someone come at the Recruting center, is 23 like me, same life course, but instead at 16yrs old, he did a lot of drugs, things like that, problems with justice........He still have more chance than me to be part of the CF because me when I was 16 I decided to go in the PRes !



Now I know I have nothing to do against my Item 5d, even the recruiter told me there is no chance the CDS will read my application. So here I am fucked because I joined at 16 and was fortunate enough to have 2 unit in my regiment, one 5 min from my home, the other 45 lol

 

[The_Falcon]

Yeah life sucks, but at the end of the day we are also only getting your version of events, and obviously you will biased in present a version that looks favourable to you.  You can reapply and wait for the waiver, or you can bitch here.