Report suggests 3/4 of Canadian Forces personnel are overweight, obese

[SeaKingTacco]

Both personal attitudes towards fitness in sailors and a command climate which supports fitness.

That is why it has gotten better.

25 years ago, PT in a foreign port was golf. That was it.

Nowadays, nearly everyone runs or lifts weights or both.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I concur with SKT.

And in my view, this improvement of personal attitudes towards fitness and command support of it is the way to continue to go and improve for the Navy.

The Navy benefits from having fit and healthy seaman, but you will never be able to either approach fitness in the Navy with the Army methods and outlook, nor does the Navy need Army "fitness freaks" approach to it.

The Navy will never need people that consider that the "fitness" part of their job means that they can run a marathon, then bike 50K before swimming two kilometres as a warm up for tonight's hockey game.

I am exaggerating, but barely  . However, if my sailors can reasonably go for a good 5k jog three times a week and hit the gym for weights once a week for an hour or two, while having a good basic diet, I would find that quite satisfactory.

 

[PuckChaser]

I'd be interested in how much fitness played a part in the damage control/fire fighting teams on PRESERVER, and whether they would have been more efficient/require less rest if they were fitter than jogging a couple times a week.

There's a big difference between jogging 5km in 45 minutes, and doing it regularly in 25.

 

[FSTO]

I'd be interested in how much fitness played a part in the damage control/fire fighting teams on PRESERVER, and whether they would have been more efficient/require less rest if they were fitter than jogging a couple times a week.

There's a big difference between jogging 5km in 45 minutes, and doing it regularly in 25.

The fitness aspect of the PRO DC response has been noted.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I see FSTO has beat me to it, but my personal observation on a whole bunch of both simulated and real ship board fires is that they are a real bag drive.

Wearing bunker gear is no joke. It is heavy and heat exhaustion is a real possibility. AFFF cans weigh around 50lbs each. Hose lengths (empty) are about the same. Charged hoses are double or triple that, not to mention the force of the water has to be counteracted.

All things being equal, being physically fit allows you to do DC longer and more effectively. Equally important is a robust mental attitude.

I have seen overweight folks go down hard fighting fires. I can also recall one lad who many would consider overweight and out of shape do multiple runs on a real fire- he just wouldn't quit.

 

[dapaterson]

There have been interesting studies of the Falklands, which suggest that the sprinter physique favoured by some is in fact poorly suited to prolonged combat.  Endurance (measured in days and weeks) is preferable to a no-fat, lean runner's physique.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

That is my (unscientific) sense, too.

The stocky, fit guy (or gal? Not sure, because of the small sample size that I have been exposed to in my career) but carrying a few extra pounds of cushion does seem to do better over the haul, especially when lack of food becomes an issue.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I see FSTO has beat me to it, but my personal observation on a whole bunch of both simulated and real ship board fires is that they are a real bag drive.

Wearing bunker gear is no joke. It is heavy and heat exhaustion is a real possibility. AFFF cans weigh around 50lbs each. Hose lengths (empty) are about the same. Charged hoses are double or triple that, not to mention the force of the water has to be counteracted.

All things being equal, being physically fit allows you to do DC longer and more effectively. Equally important is a robust mental attitude.

I have seen overweight folks go down hard fighting fires. I can also recall one lad who many would consider overweight and out of shape do multiple runs on a real fire- he just wouldn't quit.

I concur, firefighting in full bunker gear etc is tiring, as is flood control building permanent shoring and other DC activities.  Helo Crash Rescue FF is an absolute bag drive and it doesn't get easier the older you get.  Certainly, better conditioning makes for easier times of it but how large or small you are weight wise doesn't always predict who's going to quit or see it to the end.

 

[PuckChaser]

The stocky, fit guy (or gal? Not sure, because of the small sample size that I have been exposed to in my career) but carrying a few extra pounds of cushion does seem to do better over the haul, especially when lack of food becomes an issue.

That's the problem focusing in one direction or polar opposite. A guy that can bench press 500lbs who can't run 5km is just as useless as an ultramarathon runner who can't do a pullup. CAF members don't have the luxury of being able to focus on a specific event and train for it, we have to be good at both ends of the spectrum.

 

[Jarnhamar]

That's the problem focusing in one direction or polar opposite. A guy that can bench press 500lbs who can't run 5km is just as useless as an ultramarathon runner who can't do a pullup. CAF members don't have the luxury of being able to focus on a specific event and train for it, we have to be good at both ends of the spectrum.

But who would you want holding the shield next to you in a riot 

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

But who would you want holding the shield next to you in a riot 

That's easy......a Correctional Officer. :king:

 

[Remius]

But who would you want holding the shield next to you in a riot 

I choose Captain America.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I choose Captain America.

Who would in all likelihood fall under obese with his BMI  ;D

 

[daftandbarmy]

There have been interesting studies of the Falklands, which suggest that the sprinter physique favoured by some is in fact poorly suited to prolonged combat.  Endurance (measured in days and weeks) is preferable to a no-fat, lean runner's physique.

The study had a pretty clear outcome: Special Forces, Parachute Regiment and Commando Brigade personnel were able to hack it, largely because of their ruthless physical selection during recruit training and regular ongoing battle fitness oriented training at the units afterwards.

The others? Not so much.

There were many noises made about trying to upgrade the rest of the Army's fitness to close in on that of the Paras and Marines but, as with most lessons learned in war, it was forgotten in the rush to peacetime. No one wanted to admit that over 70% of the infantry could not do a big march, then fight.

The quote you may be thinking of could be from LCpl Vince Bramley's book, Excursion to Hell, referred to in this article here (p.18 onwards) http://www.seanmmaloney.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/02/D12-9-2-2E.pdf

3 PARA marched 75 miles in three days across mountainous terrain, each carrying loads upwards of 100lbs, then fought the Battle of Mt Longdon at the end of the hike (the Royal Marines performed similar 'feats of feet'). In the book he mentions that everyone visibly lost weight and those that had more to lose tended to be able to keep going longer. None of these 'heavier' guys would be classed as fat though, that's for sure. Your average PARA is about 5ft 7in tall and usually well under 190lbs... the 'Poison Dwarf Brigade', indeed.

To my knowledge the British have never had any biometric BMI-like BS as part of their fitness programs. It all tends to be performance related, you know, like real war.

 

[MilEME09]

Using fitness standards as a proper metric is good, problem with the CF is, the bar has been dropped, and I bet there are many in HQ units that haven't done a PT test in years and account for some of the obese and the morbidly obese. It did blow my mind that there was a morbidly obese group in the CF, if your that fat, you should be medically released, along with the obese. Now the new version of the FORCE test also includes a waist measurement which is a good step IMO, but I've never seen action taken for failure. Then again im in the reserves PT failure these days it's a pat on the back, and better luck next time (of course with your retry afterwards)

 

[AbdullahD]

Using fitness standards as a proper metric is good, problem with the CF is, the bar has been dropped, and I bet there are many in HQ units that haven't done a PT test in years and account for some of the obese and the morbidly obese. It did blow my mind that there was a morbidly obese group in the CF, if your that fat, you should be medically released, along with the obese. Now the new version of the FORCE test also includes a waist measurement which is a good step IMO, but I've never seen action taken for failure. Then again im in the reserves PT failure these days it's a pat on the back, and better luck next time (of course with your retry afterwards)

You know what is interesting, I consider myself obese albeit others call me husky and I can pass the 'force' test (albeit barely).

But I sure as hell would hate to have someone as unfit as I am, fighting beside me in battle. I think the CF has an unique dilemna, I have been following this thread and I think everyone here is aware of it... but I feel personally, without any expertise, whatsoever that the CF made a wrong move with the force test and lowering the standards.

Make 3x a week 2 hour gym sessions mandatory and follow them, I feel would be more then enough, especially right out of bmq. The CF would have to hire more people to compensate for the lost manpower.. but from what I understand in a time of war, it could save many lives.

I also think a bridging program for large guys like myself would be good too. Instead of full pay, give them $1,000/mo and have them on a 5 day gym program with some misc training included as well, then transfer them to full bmq when they are ready. But then again, should the CF be that responsible for candidates or can it meet recruitment needs if it isn't? (Ps any high ranking chap want to do this for me? Ill be on the first plan out.. i may need 4 months or so of work... before i feel 100% lol)

My musings
Abdullah

 

[MilEME09]

I also think a bridging program for large guys like myself would be good too. Instead of full pay, give them $1,000/mo and have them on a 5 day gym program with some misc training included as well, then transfer them to full bmq when they are ready. But then again, should the CF be that responsible for candidates or can it meet recruitment needs if it isn't? (Ps any high ranking chap want to do this for me? Ill be on the first plan out.. i may need 4 months or so of work... before i feel 100% lol)

My musings
Abdullah

I would agree, and I believe there is such a process already, atleast in the reg force, however the problem is I believe the onus is on the member. In my opinion we would get better results if we said "Okay you a MCpl bloggins will have PT together three times a week, and you will meet with a nutritionist once a week" for example, failure to meet those obligations would have repercussions of course.

 

[Humphrey Bogart]

This discussion inevitably creeps up every few years, it's a road to nowhere.  Yes 3/4 of the military is "overweight" if we use BMI as a criteria but then again, so is 90% of Canadian society.  By definition, I'm overweight by about 20lbs and have been since I was an Officer Cadet.  I've run a 13 on the beep test, been able to crank off 80+ push-ups and 20+ chin-ups on a PT test, so yes I'm overweight but not unfit.

Yes there are fatties in the military but that has more to do with the processed garbage they continuously ingest than any sort of PT plan or lack thereof. What's the average university student diet consist of?  Copious amounts of liquor and fast food, the average young private is about the same, no amount of fitness testing and PT plans will change that.

This isn't a military problem, it's a society problem. 

 

[mariomike]

This discussion inevitably creeps up every few years,

Fat troops on the street.... 
http://army.ca/forums/threads/1406.0/nowap.html
13 pages

Fat
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+fat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tPENWMu7B4yN8Qe_9ZKwBA&gws_rd=ssl#

Overweight
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+fat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tPENWMu7B4yN8Qe_9ZKwBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+overweight

Obesity
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+fat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tPENWMu7B4yN8Qe_9ZKwBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+obesity

BMI
https://www.google.ca/search?q=site%3Aarmy.ca+fat&sourceid=ie7&rls=com.microsoft:en-CA:IE-Address&ie=&oe=&rlz=1I7GGHP_en-GBCA592&gfe_rd=cr&ei=tPENWMu7B4yN8Qe_9ZKwBA&gws_rd=ssl#q=site:army.ca+BMI

etc...

This isn't a military problem, it's a society problem.

 

[dapaterson]

This isn't a military problem, it's a society problem.

But the military can and should take steps to mitigate it.  For example, lose the soft drink fountains in dining facilities.  Improve the quality of food in dining halls.  Leverage military cooks to provide nutritional information to sailors/soldiers/air people.

There are tools at hand for the military - but the path of least resistance has been taken ("If there's no Coke in the dining hall, they'll buy it somewhere else, so we should give to to them" comes to mind).