Reserve Pension- Merged

[Spr.Earl]

Mark,

If I'm reading you right, I agree. I should be able to buy back my time based on my wage at the time.
ie: approx $7.50 a day (yes, your reading it right) cause lunch was supplied. Normally some sort of mystery stew that you peeled the potatoes and carrots for yourself (and the rest of the Regiment)  

As I read it you will buy back your time at the "Current Rate" ?
As I asked is it T.I. or paid day's?

When I went to Bosnia the Army looked at my Trade, course's and time in before I received  my pay in relation to reg Force pay and  was Cpl Lvl 4  rate  I'm entitled to buy back the same and this going back
to 95 to 97 were I spent close on 2 years with 1 CER. on class C. (reg force)

I read the buy back time at the current Pension Plan Pay
I'm game and just waiting for the particulars to be promulgated, as I'm one of the few left but if they have a cut off date I know there will be some Court Action !!

 

[Rifleman62]

I feel we should keep this subject current and in this thread. I am one of the 1300 who predates the 1981/85 cut off, and of course will want to buy back all my time. A previous thread about the Domestic Ops medal/bar talked about the Cold War warriors. I was one, and in Germany on a flyover with 2PPCLI in Aug 1968 when the Russians marched into Czech Republic. It was thought at that time, war was a possibility.
Consider that the public servants that are doing the negotiating with DND have their pension, the public servants who must put the rules and regulations in place for implementation, have their pension. How much longer is this going to drag on?  It took 27 1/2 years to bring the Reserve pay from an average of 65% to 85% of Regular Force pay as well as harmonizing pay incentives from a maximum of 2 for all ranks.
Consider Adscam. The money waste there would pay for the Reserve Pension. HRDC, Gun Registry, and on. What about the foundations with billions of dollars that are not accountable to parliament, and out of reach of the Auditor General.
Bombardier Inc - How much funding goes to this Liberal company? They call the Export Development Corporation Bombardier Credit. Paul Tellier, former head of CNR, was recently fired by Bombardier. Hired by Bombardier in early 2003, he is getting a one time severance of $3.84 million. A $2 million payment under the company's midterm incentive plan, plus a yearly pension of $360,000. After less than 2 years!!!. And that's not the only public pension he is collecting!! Think of that. Bombardier is again negotiating financial assistance from Ottawa. It already owes $1 billion, plus funding from EDC.
It makes the Reserve Pension very small potatoes. I have a Redress of Grievance signed by the CDS (3 or 4 CDS's ago) stated that Reserves should have a pension, and it is one of his priorities. Some priority.

 

[Gunner]

I was shown a new presentation (Apr 05) today that actually provides some numbers for different career paths for Reservists. I'll see if I can post them as .jpgs tomorrow.  The RFRG will probably be phased out and a new severance package would be phased in.  It would be similar to the Reg's severance package but would be prorated according to how much you work duirng the year (which is a constraint not currently utilized by the RFRG).  Unfortunately it does not discuss how the buy back will work. 

If you want the entire presenation, just PM me with your email address.

Cheers,

 

[turretmonster]

Ummm perhaps its just me, but isn't there a really big problem with phasing out the CFRG  ( gratuity ) in favor of a severance package based on actual days worked?

TM

 

[Gunner]

Some of the key parts of the presentation that I haven't seen before.

 

[Gunner]

Some different scenarios.  Make sure you know the difference between the full and part time plan.

 

[Gunner]

Last 2.

 

[turretmonster]

Thanks, do you know what CIF means?
I'm looking at the 49 yr old WO and what he would get. These amounts are after he paid back all his former service at a set rate?
I'm also confused about the taxable income part for the transfer from pension plan. The text is small and the eyes are old.
TM

 

[Gunner]

CIF = Coming into force.

Remember that everyone will be an individual when it comes to implmenting this so take what I have posted with a grain of salt.  The three notes under each slide states:

1.  A member needs at least 10 years of service at release to be eligible to the RFRG.
2.  A member needs at least 10 years of service at release to be eligible to the proposed severance plan.
3.  Estimated transfer value payable from the Reserve Force pension plan calculated using methods and assumptions applicable in May 2005. Since the transfer values shown exceed the maximum allowed under the Income Tax Act, a portion of the values would be paid in cash and be treated as taxable income.

I'm not an expert but I believe the transfer values relates to the commuted value of your pension should you wish to transfer it to your RRSP.  You may want to google transfer value and Income Tax Act for further info.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Thanks Gunner,I emailed you to ask for the presentation.

I can't understand why this info has not been past on.
I know a few who are pre 80 and are also wondering what is happening with the pension but we have heard nothing but only rumour and speculation.

Thanks again.

 

[Gunner]

The following is a reprint from 38 CBG Newsletter from Dec 04.

Getting Closer: Reserve Pension Plan Update

By LCol David Oickle, Project Director, CF Pension Modernization Project

At this time, a team is working on policy and regulation development, cost
analysis, approvals, and the administrative support necessary to track
contributions and determine benefits.

Treasury Board approval is required before the new plan can be implemented.
Accordingly, the information in this article is provisional only and subject
to change prior to implementation.

There are two parts to the plan; both provide similar and comparable benefit
levels while recognizing the specific employment patterns of the two groups
of Reservists being served-full-time and part-time.

Part-time Plan

PT members of the Res Force would receive a pension benefit based on their
"updated" career earnings.  A member's yearly earnings from prior years
would be inflated by a factor called the wage index to bring all prior
earnings to a common yearly equivalent (year of retirement).  These yearly,
updated earnings would then be added together and multiplied by two percent
to determine the annual pension benefit.  The following table shows how a
benefit would be calculated for a member who joined in 1999 and retired in
2004 with the following hypothetical earnings:

Year Earnings Wage Index Updated Earnings
1999 10,100 1.2479 $12,604
2000 $19,500 1.1638 $22,694
2001 $14,500 1.1224 $16,275
2002 $11,500 1.0661 $12,260
2003 $16,000 1.0250 $16,400
2004 $21,000 1.000 $21,000
Total $92,600 $101,233

Two percent of the total updated career earnings from the he table above
($101,233 x 2 % = $2,024.66, provided to the pensioner in a monthly cheque
of $168.72.

Currently serving Members

Members already enrolled when the new pension plan is implemented will have
to pass a minimum threshold of earnings to determine eligibility to
participate in the plan.  To meet the part-time threshold, a member must
have earned at least 10 percent of the year's maximum pensionable earnings
(a salary representing the average Canadian industrial wage - $40,500 in
2004) for at least 24 consecutive months over the period beginning 1 Nov 99
to the coming in to force date.  To be eligible for the full time plan, a
member who is serving when the plan is implemented will have had to work 55
months full time out of a 60 month period from 1 Nov 99 to the
implementation date.

Members who enroll after the plan is Implemented

The suggested framework for these reservists would be as follows:

Eligibility

When part time earnings meet or exceed 10 percent of the yearly maximum
pensionable earnings for 24 consecutive months, members will be considered
participants and begin contributing to the plan.  They would then need to be
contributors for another two years before being vested, meaning that they
would be entitled to a pension benefit (other than a return of
contributions).  When those criteria have been met, membership in the plan
would be mandatory.

Entitlement

a.  An immediate unreduced annuity would be paid at age 60 for those who are
vested; at age 55, with 30 years of pensionable service; after 25 years of
full-time CF service; or disabled after 10 years of service.

b.  On election by the retiring member, a reduced annuity could be paid at
age 50 (pension is reduced five per cent for the greater of the difference
of age at retirement and 60, or each year of service at retirement less 30
years of pensionable service).

Ancillary benefits

These would include access to pension benefits for disability and survivor
benefits payable on death to spouse and eligible dependants as well as
medical and dental benefits.

Full Time Plan

Members of the Res F would move from the part time plan to the full time
plan when they have worked full time 55 out of 60 calendar months.  Pension
credits would be transferred from the part time to the full time plan.  A
pension benefit for those in the full time plan would be determined by
taking the average, annual salary for the best five years x two percent x
number of years of pensionable service.  The following hypothetical example
is for a member who has reached age 60 after having completed 30 years of
pensionable service and is retiring from the full-time plan with the
indicated earnings in the last five years (determined to be the best five
years)

Year Earnings

2000 $55,500
2001 $58,500
2002 $60,500
2003 $65,000
2004 $66,000

Total $305,500
Average $61,100

With a best five-year average of $61,100 as per the table above, a member
with 30 years of pensionable service would receive an annual pension benefit
of ($61,100 x 30 years x 2% = $36,660) of $36,660, paid in a monthly cheque
of $3,055.

 

[Gunner]

Turretmonster et al,

A transfer value is the amount that equals the capitalized value of a member's pension credits, which can be transferred at the member's direction
to another employer's pension plan, to a registered retirement savings plan, or used to purchase an annuity.

From the CF Pension Modernization website.

 

[Gunner]

Thanks to turretmonster for the following information:

Copy of email distributed by CWO Leger, Land Reserve CWO (note the disclaimer at the bottom before anyone runs off half cocked).

Good day Gents/ Bonjour Messieurs

I have just finished attending the Chief of Reserves & Cadets here in Ottawa and would like to Give you the latest on the Reserve Pension Plan:

- The admin proposal has been signed by the CDS & MND and sent toTreasury Board (TB) for approval by June 13

- rules will be then submitted for approval by Sept 05 by TB

- final approval by TB is expected by Dec 05

- Jan 1 2006 will be the the start date TBC

- for those who have previous service you will have 18 months to decide to do a buy back

- a letter will be sent to all reservist detailing the plan and and cost associated with

- delay to pay the buyback will be 20 years or age 60

- you will be able either to pay a lump sum or by installements or a combination of both

- RRFG will cease to exist as of Jan 1 2006 and will be grandfathered so will not loose it and replace by a severance package similar to the Reg Force

Remember it is a work in progress so this is an update only and not the law, any questions should be directed to DGCB care of LCol D OIckle and if they are questions suggest you have only one person send them per brigade.

 

[Spr.Earl]

This was emailed to me by some one who attended the meeting on the 17th of this month.
REMEMBER it's just his notes you are reading as things may change, but it does give you some idea of what's coming down the pipe.



> Hot off the press while I still have my notes
>
> The project is awaiting Treasury Board Approval for the implementation -
> full approval expected in Sep 05
>
> Soon after that briefing teams will be sent across the country to info all
> on latest developements
> Staff is being trained now - IBM is working with them on the
> implementation software rules
>
> Timings
> Nov 03 - Legislation approved
> Now
> - Draft regs for res plan are 90% complete, 30% for the reg plan
> - They froze the software on 1 May 05
> 13 June 05
> - Treasury Board was scheduled to meet on key parts of the Res plan
> (deferred)
> Sep 05 - Treasury Board Approval Expected on both Reg and res plan) - he
> is confident and a very accomplished speaker. All should try and hear him
> when they come through your area.
>
> In brief
> If you have
> 55 months svc in last 60 you are enrolled in the reg plan - means once in
> these people stay in this side of the plan.
> over the last 24 months if they earned at least 10% of the (Yearly max
> Pensionable Earnings) then are in the reserve plan
>
> They wil bring in 33,000 pers to the unified plan
> All reserve units should be starting now to make sure all MPRRs are up to
> date and verifiable
> Lots of work being done in the background to stitch the infrastructure
> together
> Suggested unit clerks will be a big part of the process
>
> When the plans open up - a team of 24 pers at NDHQ will review all
> reserves MPRR to determine and initial estimate of the potential value of
> the plans and possible benefits. They are prepared to ask for all the T4
> slips from Revenue Canada all the way back to get the most complete
> picture of the indivs past service.
>
> He suggested for those reserves with lots of RRSP paid up now to put it in
> the CF plan if they are getting close to a pensionable age as the
> performance of the CF program is ahead of the civil markets (I assume
> thats because guaranteed by the taxpayer)
>
> Estimated payments
> = reserve plan = 10% of earnings - govt adds in at rate of (you $1)Govt
> $4.70)
> = reg plan - 4% of earnings prior to the YMPE govt figure of about 41,000
> (Yearly max Pensionable Earnings) and 7% of earnings after that number
>
> Details on buy backs of time TBA - he suggested it will all be known once
> they start up officially and then pers will know details the closer they
> are to max service or retirement time.
>
> Some fragments
> EG: an immediate annuity after 25 years and indexed at age 55
> Gratuity is out on Jan 1 - replaced by the 7 days pay per years of svc
> .......... will be equivalent
> CFSA Pension Act modernisations includes earlier vesting, Terms of Service
> are changed to Pensionable Service years, improved survivor and disability
> benefits
> buyback details still to be announced, he said all should try and buy back
> as much as possible
> All are in from day 1 - length of service can bump them up higher
> after 2 years you can get Return of Contributions
> Vesting is now 2 years vs 10 years (after the policy is approved)
> then its locked in from 2-24 years with a deferred annuity
> 25 years - immediate unreduced annuity
> 30 years @ 55 yrs age - Immediate Annuity
>
> key 1 reserve trg day = 1 pensionable service day
>
> Thats about it as best as my notes say.
>
Summary - real news on this should start circulating in fall 05 across the
country

And as we understand it - if you have the time they encourage you to buy
back as much as you can

 

[J.J]

I have another question to add to this mess. In my civilian job I work for the Federal gov't (not DND), I pay into the superannuation. I will also contribute to this with the Reserves. I was told by my pay & benefits people that I cannot collect two pensions from the government. :'(  I have my retirement date for a full pension (my 55th birthday) for my civvie job, where I will receive a full pension. My question to the few in the know is...Are my contributions to the Reserve Pension for naught???? Is it good money down the proverbial toilet...Or will I receive my Reserve pension, but they will claw back my civvie pension??? No one seems to know, the clerks, military or civvie (surprisingly no differant, other than a uniform) cannot give me an answer. It would be nice to know what will happen Oct 27 2025.
Thanks in advance

 

[Spr.Earl]

I have another question to add to this mess. In my civilian job I work for the Federal gov't (not DND), I pay into the superannuation. I will also contribute to this with the Reserves. I was told by my pay & benefits people that I cannot collect two pensions from the government. :'(   I have my retirement date for a full pension (my 55th birthday) for my civvie job, where I will receive a full pension. My question to the few in the know is...Are my contributions to the Reserve Pension for naught???? Is it good money down the proverbial toilet...Or will I receive my Reserve pension, but they will claw back my civvie pension??? No one seems to know, the clerks, military or civvie (surprisingly no differant, other than a uniform) cannot give me an answer. It would be nice to know what will happen Oct 27 2025.
Thanks in advance

DND pension is a separate pension from Fed Snivie Pen.
You can collect both.
Don't worry,our pension (Military) is separate from the Civie side.
They can not deny you what you have earned as a member of the Miltia,Reserve Navy,Air Force or Rangers.
I have a Provincial Pen. same as the Fed Superan. I intend to collect both.

End game is you can collect both.
You have served your Country and will recieve a pension for that service.

 

[Brad Sallows]

Another alternative is to enquire whether your total equivalent of reserve service time can be rolled into your civilian pension.  Most people are going to retire from the reserve before they retire completely.  Perhaps some of you can instead retire sooner (at full pension) from your civilian job.

 

[Spr.Earl]

Another alternative is to enquire whether your total equivalent of reserve service time can be rolled into your civilian pension.   Most people are going to retire from the reserve before they retire completely.   Perhaps some of you can instead retire sooner (at full pension) from your civilian job.

If this happens I can trensfer 30 yrs of Prov Super An. to the Mil time plus my Plug. time will give me over 45 yrs = What?

All's I'm looking for is a pension of $1,500 a month for my 30 yr plus Dedication as a Citiazan Soldier.
Hell a lot cheaper than a Reg. what?

I think I derserve it,I joined in 76 and still serving.
I'm one  of 1,100 who are still in pre 85.

I earned it,I don't know about the rest.

Sound fare?

 

[Gunner]

Not sure if this says anything that hasn't already been discussed.  FYI.

CANADIAN FORCES PENSION MODERNIZATION PROJECT

ISSUE

1. To provide salient points from the CFPMP briefing presented in Ottawa by LCol Oickle, Project Director, on 17 Jun 05.  MWO XXXX representing the G1, attended this briefing.

BACKGROUND

2. The Pension Modernization Project has been ongoing for quite some time now and its main focus in addition to pension modernization is the establishment of a pension plan for the Canadian Forces Reserve Component.  Although the points covered below are still to be considered in the â Å“Proposedâ ? stage, approval in principal is expected at the next Treasury Board meeting when this plan is to be discussed.  The TB meeting was originally scheduled for 13 Jun 05, was subsequently postponed to 20 Jun 05 and has again been postponed until further notice.

DISCUSSION

3. The following salient points were taken from the briefing:

· Anticipate round the country briefings to all bases in Sep 05
· Anticipate project implementation date of either 31 Dec 05 or 01 Jan 06
· Buy back will be an individual responsibility
· Vesting will occur after 2 years of service
· Vesting will be immediate for Res F members who buy back qualifying time
· No limitations on the amount of time that can be bought back
· All calculations will be done at NDHQ.  Team of 24 pers will be hired to perform this activity
· Indexing rules will be the same for both Reg and Res Force members
· Members will be able to collect pensions from both the Public Service and the CF if applicable
· RFRG will be replaced by a Severence Package which is expected to be the same as the Reg F package
· RFRG will be phased out over time.  However; a Res F member will never receive severence at a rate lower than what he/she would have received in RFRG
· RFRG will not go to either the Rangers or to the CIC at this time
· Anticipate a period of 18 months to implement the plan completely
· Not all business rules are yet established
· Will be able to roll RRSP contributions directly from the RRSP to the Pension Plan with no tax implications.  One time only
· Plan is to have the SISIP Financial Advisors trained to act as Financial Advisors for the Reserves

CONCLUSION

4. Given that most of this information is not new and that it is still in the proposed stages, I would recommend that no official briefings be made until the actual briefing team from Ottawa visits in September.  However, members should be encouraged to visit the below noted site every 2 weeks for updates.  Once the plan has been approved, full details will be avail at www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb.

 

[Spr.Earl]

"RFRG will not go to either the Rangers or ...."
I can't believe that !!!! 

They Rangers deserve the same!!!