Reserve Pension- Merged

[dapaterson]

Probably just means they're updating it to the 2009 contribution rates - up by 0.3%, I believe - if you elect in 2009 versus 2007 you'll be paying a higher percentage of your earnings before compound interest is applied.

 

[begbie]

I hope no one was planning on doing their buyback before Feb as the calculator is down as per http://www.admfincs.forces.gc.ca/dcf-dsp/notice-avis-eng.asp.  Sigh.

"The calculator you are attempting to access is temporarily unavailable. It is anticipated the calculator will be available mid to end January 2009. Unless your situation is urgent, please do not contact DCFPS as the calculator will be made available before your request is processed."

I'm thankful that I kept copies of my buyback paperwork including print-out's of everything I entered into the calculator. 

 

[RLD]

Probably just means they're updating it to the 2009 contribution rates - up by 0.3%, I believe - if you elect in 2009 versus 2007 you'll be paying a higher percentage of your earnings before compound interest is applied.

I doubt this is just to change the contribution rate in the calculator. That would be a relatively small change and should not take a month or more as suggested by the mid/late Jan return of the calculator. Also the normal way to make these types of changes is to do the mod on an off-line version, test it and then deploy it on 1 Jan 09 when the new rate comes into effect. Deploying and testing on the live site should only take it down for a short period (e.g. a couple hours).  I see three possibilities:

The Optimistic part of me who hopes that changes are being made to the punitive interest rate (7% Compounded) being charged Reserves vice the much more favourable rate charged to the other major Federal Pension Plans (i.e. 4% simple interest in the CFSA (Reg Force), Public Service and RCMP Superannuation Acts).

The Cynic in me who believes someone in Pension Services decided that they could gouge even more money out of Reservists by taking the calculator down until 2009 thereby increasing the contribution rate that people will have to pay plus forcing more interest $ for people who had hoped to get their election done over the holiday period.

The Realist who sees it as most likely that the calculator is broken and Pension Services haven't figured out how to fix it and can't be bothered to tell anyone planning to elect how they can lock in an election date without the calculator.

Take your pick or speculate as to your own reasons since there hasn't been a CANFORGEN or any other info that I could find to explain the shutdown of the calculator. That however is true to form in this pension rollout process.

 

[begbie]

Care to share your 2009 prediction vis-a-vis your buyback?

My Prediction: My buyback will still not be finalized going into 2010.  I will be one frustrated individual.

 

[dapaterson]

I am holding back my temper right now.  I called in yesterday.  My file was received in March 2007.  They are now processing files from March 2007 (other than releases etc).  Good news you'd think - after 21 months, some progress.

Pension Services:  "Oh, but you've transferred to the Public Service.  So we've moved you to the Transfers pile.  And your 'seniority' on that pile dates from when you moved to the Public Service - October '08.  And we won't be getting to those files for another 12 months or so."

Me:  "So, 12 months from now, the transfers people will send it to the buyback people, who will then send it back to the transfers people.  So rather than keeping me in the buyback queue, letting me pay for it, then carry on with the transfer, you're imposing another delay because your processes don't make sense."

Pension Serivces:  "It does look that way, yes."


So:  I'm now being told that the wait will be 33+ months before I even know how much I owe or what benefits will accrue.  (Not to mention that my leave entitlements in the Public Service are reduced becasue of their delays).  No professional organization would operate in this way.  Having tried to be polite and work through the system to no avail, I think it's about time for "Plan B".

 

[Nfld Sapper]

Get this one, I'm still waiting for my letter that says I am eligible to participate in the damn pension.

 

[dapaterson]

Get this one, I'm still waiting for my letter that says I am eligible to participate in the damn pension.

WRITE TO THE PENSION OFFICE!  There are time limits involved; plus, delays hurt you more than the pension office.  Two examples: when I elected, contribution rates were 4.3% of earnings; now they're 4.9%.  Interest is charged at 7% compounded per year.  So a two year waiy will cost you 0.6% more for all the contributions, plus 7% for each of two years.  That is a very significant amount of money you will be out of pocket.

 

[the 48th regulator]

I am holding back my temper right now.  I called in yesterday.  My file was received in March 2007.  They are now processing files from March 2007 (other than releases etc).  Good news you'd think - after 21 months, some progress.

Pension Services:  "Oh, but you've transferred to the Public Service.  So we've moved you to the Transfers pile.  And your 'seniority' on that pile dates from when you moved to the Public Service - October '08.  And we won't be getting to those files for another 12 months or so."

Me:  "So, 12 months from now, the transfers people will send it to the buyback people, who will then send it back to the transfers people.  So rather than keeping me in the buyback queue, letting me pay for it, then carry on with the transfer, you're imposing another delay because your processes don't make sense."

Pension Serivces:  "It does look that way, yes."


So:  I'm now being told that the wait will be 33+ months before I even know how much I owe or what benefits will accrue.  (Not to mention that my leave entitlements in the Public Service are reduced becasue of their delays).  No professional organization would operate in this way.  Having tried to be polite and work through the system to no avail, I think it's about time for "Plan B".

You are in the Civil Service now, Talk to your Union rep.

We just finished negotiations, so the Rep. will be eager to sort that out, I would presume.

dileas

tess

 

[dapaterson]

I won't go into my feelings about Rand (or Lavigne vs OPSEU); suffice it to say I'm a bit more libertarian than the Supreme Court.  I am addressing the leave question through the compensation and benefits staff; but the fall-down right now is the CF pension folks; they are sitting on the information that's needed, and are estimating that it will take them a year to get to my file.

Again, as I stated, there is a plan "B" that I will now prepare to launch.

 

[Nfld Sapper]

WRITE TO THE PENSION OFFICE!  There are time limits involved; plus, delays hurt you more than the pension office.  Two examples: when I elected, contribution rates were 4.3% of earnings; now they're 4.9%.  Interest is charged at 7% compounded per year.  So a two year waiy will cost you 0.6% more for all the contributions, plus 7% for each of two years.  That is a very significant amount of money you will be out of pocket.

I know, but since I only got to buy back from Dec 1999 to March 07 it won't be too much (I hope)

They are quick, letter is now cut and in the mail so to speak.

 

[Stoker]

Just before Christmas we were talking at work about the sheer number of members who still haven't elected to buy back yet, something like over half. Quite a few of my mates still haven't elected yet, mostly because of the difficulty in getting their records and so forth. I guess everyone who don't elect to buy back is money in the governments pocket.

 

[FoldedWings]

Just thought I would update you folks on where I'm going...or NOT going....with my pension buyback.  As I mentioned before, I started mine in March 2007 as well. I retired Oct 2007.  I finally got the statement of benefits and cost from Pension Services on 20 Nov 2008 and sent them the paperwork for the RSP transfer the same day.  I wrote them yesterday asking what was the status of my file as I have heard nothing from them.  I was told that they sent the forms to the bank for the RSP transfer on 26 Nov but still haven't received the cheque.  My records say the money was taken out of the RSP on 16 Dec so where the >>>>did it go?  This is NOT good!!

 

[geo]

My records say the money was taken out of the RSP on 16 Dec so where the >>>>did it go? 

Not much happened between Dec 13th & Jan 5th.
I would gather that the bank draft was sitting in someone's IN basket over the XMass block leave.

 

[Rifleman62]

I hope you mean that the funds were moved from your RRSP to Pension Services by using form CRA T2033 DIRECT TRANSFER. Pension Services receives the T2033 (signed by you), then requests the funds via the T2033 from the financial institution, who then mails the cheque to Pension Services. I did have several problems with this. Even after getting the address directly from the contact at Pension Services, the first delivery attempt by Canada Post was returned to the financial institution as "not known". Same with the courier company on the first attempt. It took three possibly four attempts to get the additional funds to Pension Services. Seems no one knew who they were or where they were located even though the address never changed from when I got it directly from the horses mouth. Took over a month and many emails/phone calls. The initial transfer was no problem.
You should phone Pension Services to see if they have been received. It should be credited on the date received by Pension Services no matter when it is posted.

As I stated before, everyone who is waiting on Pension Services for the amount they owe is paying compound interest one way or another. Every year the contribution rate increases, so the delay adds additional costs that are not the fault of the Reservist. Additionally, since the Stock Market has gone down substantially in 2008 (especially since the 12,800 points in Sep to the 9200 points at year end), a lot of RRSP accounts have lost a lot of value if you where now transferring the funds. Therefore you would owe a lot more if transferring now. I put all my RRSPs into the money market which earning relatively nothing over for a year. But at least I knew how much I would have at transfer time. If the market was booming (which it was) you lost. If the market was the pits like it is now, your buy back amount was secure. But how many Reservists are waiting on Pension Services, and are going to lose on a transfer of RRSPs in the near future because of the delay?

 

[begbie]

Additionally, since the Stock Market has gone down substantially in 2008 (especially since the 12,800 points in Sep to the 9200 points at year end), a lot of RRSP accounts have lost a lot of value if you where now transferring the funds. Therefore you would owe a lot more if transferring now. I put all my RRSPs into the money market which earning relatively nothing over for a year. But at least I knew how much I would have at transfer time. If the market was booming (which it was) you lost. If the market was the pits like it is now, your buy back amount was secure. But how many Reservists are waiting on Pension Services, and are going to lose on a transfer of RRSPs in the near future because of the delay?

This is precisely what I was afraid of in Nov '07 when I got my RRSP investments out of the market and into a GIC for safe keeping.  I took a big hit selling but given what happened to the market in the fall of '08, I'm still light years ahead.  In the end, I wanted to ensure that I had enough for my buyback as I couldn't take the 20%-50% hit that a lot of people took and recover in time to buyback the full amount (whenever that happens). 

I know there are some reservists that I work with who did take a big hit on the RRSP investments they planned to use and now think that they will end up paying a lot more over the years to buy all their service back.

 

[begbie]

I was initially concerned that a member who contributes to another federal pension plan would not be able to participate in the reserve plan.  My fear may be correct.  I spoke with a fellow unit member last night who has recently joined the PS.  He has been told by his compensation advisor that since he is already a member of the reserve pension plan, he cannot partake in a PS pension plan.  Apparently, you cannot participate in nor collect two federal pensions simultaneously.  HR came across this as they, as a matter of routine, verify whether or not each new hire is a member of a federal pension plan.

Their advice... release from the CF.  I'm not sure what that would accomplish.

I understand you can't "double-dip" as it applies to collecting two paycheques when on course or a reserve concentration ex, etc..  But I can't understand why you wouldn't be allowed to participate in both.  It's like having two distinct jobs.  If this is legit and not an unfortunate interpretation of the rules, then it's not a stretch to say it's illegal to collect a PS paycheque and Cl A pay for weeknights and weekends.

So this is just a heads up for all of us who are in the PS seeking to buyback reserve time for the reserve pension.  After all the waiting, you may get told you're not eligible.  You may be told that you're not entitled to the exact same benefits as your peers because of your civy job.  That for doing the same work as your peers, giving up weeknights and weekends, you won't be making as much as them.

Just a heads up.

 

[CountDC]

Their advice... release from the CF.  I'm not sure what that would accomplish.

This would enable him to switch to the PS pension plan.  I would question rather it is required to release from the reserves to do it though.

 

[geo]

Ummm... why release ?
Couldn't he just waive his right to the CF pension - if that's what he wants to do

 

[dapaterson]

Interesting that a person can hold two PS jobs and contribute for both (see the "Dual Employment" provisions), yet is not allowed to be in the PSSA and CFSA simultaneously.

Methinks the implementors did not do a proper wargaming to see all possible interactions, and thus we're left with what we've got.

 

[Harris]

Update on the Buyback calculator.

I contacted them to confirm when the calculator would be back up and received the following:

"The Pension Services website is currently down due to a security concern.  I am told it should be back in service by mid January.  You can contact Pension Services directly at 1-800-267-0325, or by email at priorpensionableservicearrears@forces.gc.ca"

I'm not getting a warm and fuzzy on this whole issue.