Reserve Pension- Merged

[dapaterson]

To expand further:

Pensions are now based on paid days of CF service (9131 days of service for 25 years).  So, our theoretical Reg F member would need to total their paid days while a Reservist - Class B days plus Class C days plus (Class A days times 1.4), then add that to their Regular Force paid days of service, plus any days of MATA or PATA, then see if they've hit the magic threshold of 9131 paid days. 


The comms for the new pension plan and its impacts on past or future Reserve service have been less than stellar.  And not everyone will sit down and read the act and its related regulations (several hundred pages of dense legalese - over 800K of text)

 

[CountDC]

Seen - so they have done away with the old 1 year=3 months.

Looking at this (although I will wait for pensions to get back to me in another year or two or whatever to confirm) I have 10 years, 311 days credit from reserves so for the magic 25 I would actually only need 14 years 54 days (give or take a few days) to retire with full pension (although I am not running to releases yet).

The last answer I received from someone in releases did not make sense to me - according to them I would be credited with the full 14.5 years I served with the reserves so only had to do 10.5 with the regs.  That is why I put the enquiry to pensions - everyone had a different answer and none were making sense.

 

[dapaterson]

In corresponding with pensions, be sure to carefully document all your information - as they sometimes make assumptions if there are gaps in the information.

As well, record any phone calls you have with them - Name, date, time and details discussed.  Then email the person you spoke with a copy of your notes for their confirmation.  Very handy for the next time you have to call.

 

[dapaterson]

And one more addition:

If pay records are lost or missing, individuals will be credited per the old method: four days calendar gets you one day "paid".

Of course, the pay records from 1976 through 1998 were all in computer-readable format, in a computer system known as the Reserve Data System.  Those records have been lost / destroyed / misplaced, contrary to the Privacy Act and the Library and Archives Act.  DND, of course, is still in denial about those records; today, if you submit a written request IAW the Privacy Act for thse records they will illegally take your official request, hand it over to another group within DND, deem it to be an unofficial request, and then ignore the law and provide you with neither your records nor a written declaration of why they are not providing you with your records.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Seen - so they have done away with the old 1 year=3 months.

Looking at this (although I will wait for pensions to get back to me in another year or two or whatever to confirm) I have 10 years, 311 days credit from reserves so for the magic 25 I would actually only need 14 years 54 days (give or take a few days) to retire with full pension (although I am not running to releases yet).

The last answer I received from someone in releases did not make sense to me - according to them I would be credited with the full 14.5 years I served with the reserves so only had to do 10.5 with the regs.  That is why I put the enquiry to pensions - everyone had a different answer and none were making sense.

To expand further:

Pensions are now based on paid days of CF service (9131 days of service for 25 years).  So, our theoretical Reg F member would need to total their paid days while a Reservist - Class B days plus Class C days plus (Class A days times 1.4), then add that to their Regular Force paid days of service, plus any days of MATA or PATA, then see if they've hit the magic threshold of 9131 paid days. 


The comms for the new pension plan and its impacts on past or future Reserve service have been less than stellar.  And not everyone will sit down and read the act and its related regulations (several hundred pages of dense legalese - over 800K of text)

Okay, now I am confused again!!!!!  According to your info and calculations, a member of the reserve force must serve an equivalent of 25 years of service (9131 paid days) in order to qualify for an immediate unreduced pension?????  This can't be right!!!  According to my calculations that means:

If a reserve member parades an average of 60 days a year, that would mean a total of 84 days (60x1.4).  This means they would have to parade for 108 years in order to satisfy the 25 year equivalent!!!!

Is it not that a member has to have 25 years of Pensionable Service and not CF Service???  Pensionable service which " ...includes the years you are an active contributor or participant"?

As you can see - this is quite the difference.

Can someone please clarify?????

 

[dapaterson]

The short answer:  It depends.

There are two CF pension plans.  If you're class A with only brief class B/C periods, you're in the Reserve Pension Plan (part I.1 of the CFSA).  The 9131 day limit does not apply.

If you're Reg F or work Class B/C for 5 years straight you're in the old CFSA plan, part I, where the 9131 limit does apply.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Seen - so they have done away with the old 1 year=3 months.

Looking at this (although I will wait for pensions to get back to me in another year or two or whatever to confirm) I have 10 years, 311 days credit from reserves so for the magic 25 I would actually only need 14 years 54 days (give or take a few days) to retire with full pension (although I am not running to releases yet).

The last answer I received from someone in releases did not make sense to me - according to them I would be credited with the full 14.5 years I served with the reserves so only had to do 10.5 with the regs.  That is why I put the enquiry to pensions - everyone had a different answer and none were making sense.

First off, if that is the case, then, again, fulltime reservists are getting screwed again, because if they are "in" the plan and then revert to class A status, they stay "in" the plan and now have to work under the "magic formula" in order to qualify for the 25 year rule - something seems not fair about that!!!

Secondly, I am not sure you are correct on this.  According to the DCBA website, when you look under the "part time" explanation, it also includes the term "CF Service" as the qualifier for immediate unreduced pension (not taking into account the "age" criteria factors for receiving "immediate money").

I have to admit - I was always under the impression that the plan was that a reservist or regular force member could retire and collect an immediate unreduced pension after 25 years of pensionable service and no this term CF Service.  I can honestly say that I do not remember the term CF Service being applied to the immediate and unreduced pension category, because if it was, I sure a whole lot of people would have been complaining about it!!!

Perhaps this is a slip up and not an intentional change in policy that they though no one would notice!!!!

Someone, anyone, please set me straight on this!!!!

 

[George Wallace]

First off, if that is the case, then, again, fulltime reservists are getting screwed again, because if they are "in" the plan and then revert to class A status, they stay "in" the plan and now have to work under the "magic formula" in order to qualify for the 25 year rule - something seems not fair about that!!!

???

If you are in any way trying to insinuate that a Reservist with 25 years of Class A Service should get the same Pension, as a Full Time Regular Force member who has been paying into his Pension Plan for 25 years, then you are smoking dope.

Let's admit it.  What kind of Pension are we really looking at for Class A Reservists?  Not too much.  Perhaps one or two Timmies per month in their old age.

 

[Gunner]

Guys,

Just go to the CF Modernization Website as it spells everything out quite well:

Reservists in part time plan:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/resforce_plan_e.asp?sidesection=5

Reservists in full time plan:

http://www.forces.gc.ca/dgcb/cfpmp/engraph/resforce_fulltime_e.asp?sidesection=5

While implementation of the pension plan for Reserves has been somewhat suspect  : it is a defined benefit plan that is quite lucrative if you are just starting out or you have the money to place into the plan.

 

[Future Pensioner]

???

If you are in any way trying to insinuate that a Reservist with 25 years of Class A Service should get the same Pension, as a Full Time Regular Force member who has been paying into his Pension Plan for 25 years, then you are smoking dope.

Let's admit it.  What kind of Pension are we really looking at for Class A Reservists?  Not too much.  Perhaps one or two Timmies per month in their old age.

No - that is not what I am saying at all!!!!

I am not referring to the amount of pension that one will receive - yes of course it will be different because the contributions are different as well as the way they are calculated are different.  By the way a Class A reservist pension could be a lot more than you imagine depending on the history of the individual!!!

What I am referring to is when an individual is entitled to begin receiving the "immediate unreduced pension" - i.e. when do I start getting money!!!!  According to this 25 year CF service, I have to accumulate a total of 9131 days (or turn 60) before I start to receive and unreduced pension.  Perhaps I missed something over the years, but I was led to believe that after 25 years of service (just like my CD entitlement) - I was entitled to receive a pension based upon how much I contributed/worked!!  Now I am understanding that even if I have 25 years of service, but not CF service (i.e. 9131 paid days) if I get out before I am 60, I won't see a cent of it, yet after 25 years of service, a regular force person can retire and start drawing a pension!!!  My feelling is 25 years is 25 years whether I am doing it part time or full time.  Of course my amount of pension should be different, but when I am entitled to draw it should not.

 

[Gunner]

Future Pensioner, read the freakin link I provided and it tells you exactlywhat options are available to you.  You're confusing pensionable service with CF service.

 

[Future Pensioner]

Gunner:

With all due respect - how about you read my freakin posts!!!

I am aware of the information your link provides, as a matter of fact I referred to it in one of my previous posts.

Maybe I can clarify my question:  has the reference to CF Service always been in relation to "full time days".  As it seems to me, the reference to this 9131 days seems new.  I was always lead to believe that CF Service for this purpose was the same as for the count towards the CD - i.e. years of service - not years of "paid" or "full time" service.  I was just wondering if anyone else is of the same understanding.

 

[dapaterson]

There are two plans.  Full time service for part I of 9131 days is the requirement to qualify (or reaching age 60, or being medically released, or being FRP'd or some others that I may have forgotten).  I must admit that as a member of part I, I no longer remember the qualifying details for part I.1.


As everyone's situation is different, each individual should get familiar with the rules and regulations that pertain to themselves.

The requirement for 25 years paid service under part I.1 has always been there.  Nothing new there.

 

[geo]

FP... Years of service count.... as far as eligibility...
Plan 1.1 will pay reservists - based on their total earnings throughout their career.
Plan 1 will pay reservists based on their total years of service and the rank they retire with in the end.

 

[CountDC]

Secondly, I am not sure you are correct on this.  According to the DCBA website, when you look under the "part time" explanation, it also includes the term "CF Service" as the qualifier for immediate unreduced pension (not taking into account the "age" criteria factors for receiving "immediate money").

nor am I - that is why I stated I am waiting for pensions to get back to me and confirm.

I have to admit - I was always under the impression that the plan was that a reservist or regular force member could retire and collect an immediate unreduced pension after 25 years of pensionable service and no this term CF Service.  I can honestly say that I do not remember the term CF Service being applied to the immediate and unreduced pension category, because if it was, I sure a whole lot of people would have been complaining about it!!!

Same here but the times are a changing.  I believe the term CF Service came in to use when they brought in the Reserve Pension Plan and created confusion for those of us that CT'd to reg f under the old 20 years reg f time or CRA plan.  Before the new plans I had to serve until CRA 55 to qualify for an IA but would receive a 28 or 29 year pension (can't remember off the top the exact number). Under the new plans my reserve time counts as time served towards the 25 years I supposedly need now for IA - although I and others obviously find it a bit confusing on how this is calculated.  I dare not transfer back to reserves until I obtain my IA as I am sure that will just blow my mind trying to figure things out.

I believe DAP is right - the comms on the reserve pension and all the new changes have not been the greatest.  We can all read the site and come up with different possible info.  I read the site, understood one thing but when I talked to others including a release clerk received different answers.

Finally - as it is so hard and takes so long for me to get an answer on what I think should be a simple question I really feel sorry for you that are dealing with pensions from the reserve end these days. Just to get my full reserve time credit for pension buy back took 5 years and most of my time was Cl B/A.

 

[Rifleman62]

Elected pensionable service is limited to a period that when combined with your current service provides a total pensionable service period of 35 years. Prior to the CIF, you could calculate all your service for which you were paid to obtain 35 years. i.e. In my case from 6 Oct 62 to 5 Aug 07, every day I was paid was counted to a maximum of 35 years paid service.  Effective the CIF, what is counted is the period 5 Aug 72 to 5 Aug 07 = 35 calender years which is called pensionable service.

I personally had a lot of paid service from Oct 62 to Aug 72, including time with 4 CMBG, which I "lost", but with the updated pensionable earnings and the 7 % CI, it was unaffordable anyway.

 

[Rifleman62]

To clarify: "Effective the CIF, what is counted is the period 5 Aug 72 to 5 Aug 07 = 35 calender years which is called pensionable service".

To read: Effective the CIF, what is counted is the period 5 Aug 72 to 5 Aug 07 = 35 calender years which is called pensionable service. Add all your paid days within that period to equal the number of pensionable days .  Your pension cannot exceed 35 years of pensionable service (35 calender years).

Your pension is calculated on the number of pensionable days within the maximum 35 year period. Most people convert pensionable days to years and say i.e. "i have a 25 1/2 year pension", etc.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

So, does anyone here have twenty pensionable full time Reserve years? If so, what's your payback? You can PM me if you wish.

Tanks!

 

[CountDC]

So, does anyone here have twenty pensionable years (full time)? If so, what's your payback? You can PM me if you wish.

Tanks!

I have twenty pensionable years (full time) - oh, that's not really what you meant is it?  ;D

 

[Fishbone Jones]

I have twenty pensionable years (full time) - oh, that's not really what you meant is it?  ;D

If it's Reserve time and your buying it back? Yeah, what's the buyback? If it's Reg time, read the thread title and quit jerking my chain.