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Reserve time in Reg F pension

dimsum

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Admin or former PRes folks:

I have a few years of pensionable PRes time that I bought back when I switched to the Reg F, and I'm under the assumption that once I finish my 25 years and can retire without penalty, my years of PRes time will add onto that (so, say, 30 years pension).  However, the other day I was talking to someone and they said that it didn't work like that. 

Am I out to lunch with my assumptions?
 
I'd say they're out to lunch.  What else would be the point of buying back your PFTPS/Reserve time? 

Increasing your pension—Reservists in the Reserve Force Pension Plan;  look at the info in the  "What does it mean to buy back previous service" and the "Why should I consider buying back previous service" sections. 

Your Reserve PFTPS you bought back also counts towards the 9131 days (or whatever the right number is) of pensionable time for your '25 years'.

You can always give the pension folks a call;  they're the best source of info.  https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/fac-caf/cntctns-cntctus-eng.html
 
There's also an online pension calculator that has real, individual, up to date information - DWAN only.  You'll need a PKI card.

There are subtleties to the rules depending on when you joined the Reg F, but, big picture, your assumption that your prior time will add to your pension is correct.

Certain individuals are grandfathered under older rules.  It's important that you understand your options - that's why it's recommended to attend a SCAN seminar well in advance of retirement.
 
Eye In The Sky said:
Your Reserve PFTPS you bought back also counts towards the 9131 days (or whatever the right number is) of pensionable time for your '25 years'.

So, in my case on an IE 25, are you saying the bought back pension time (4 years for example) means I can retire at 21 years of Reg F time?  And if so, would it reflect on my MPRR?  It still says IE 25 and the date is 25 years after my transfer to the Reg F.
 
Dimsum said:
So, in my case on an IE 25, are you saying the bought back pension time (4 years for example) means I can retire at 21 years of Reg F time?  And if so, would it reflect on my MPRR?  It still says IE 25 and the date is 25 years after my transfer to the Reg F.

Your PTFPS should show on your MPRR (mine does on the EMAA version...not sure about Mon Mass...and I haven't seen a Guardian version MPRR yet).  Mine shows exactly all the Reg and Res time I bought back when I went back Regs last time.

That is the way I understand it, yep.  Another guy I know recently called the Pension Center (or whatever it is called) and he was told his Res PFTPS was counted into the 9131 days (it is something like that) you need to qual for your 25yr pension.

I personally haven't called them yet to 'find out my pension date'...
 
Terms of Service and Pension are not inextricably linked.  Don't confuse the two.
 
dapaterson said:
Terms of Service and Pension are not inextricably linked.  Don't confuse the two.

Good point; you could still have 25yrs pensionable service, but still be penalized for releasing 'early'/before your TOS is complete.  Is that more accurate?
 
For what it is worth,

Canadian Forces Service includes
•days of service in the Reserve Force for which you are paid: ◦days of training or duty of fewer than six hours count for 0.5 days
◦days of Class "A" service count for 1.4 days and
◦periods before 1 April 1999, when the length of the period can be verified but not the number of days, each day of the period counts as 0.25 of a day
https://www.tpsgc-pwgsc.gc.ca/fac-caf/act/rsrv-rfp/aug-incr-eng.html

 
On the top left corner of the form the pension centre sends you that breaks down all eligible buy back time has the number of years and days.
 
dapaterson said:
Terms of Service and Pension are not inextricably linked.  Don't confuse the two.

Correct.  The way it was explained to me when I bought my Reserve time was that although my pension would be based on my total pensionable service, I would still have to complete my Terms of Service in order to avoid a penalty (reduction in annuity).  They referred to it as pensionable time (eligible service that I've paid for) versus qualifying time (terms of service).  In my case, I still had to complete my Intermediate Engagement (IE - 20 years REGULAR Force service) in order to get an unreduced annuity, but that annuity would have been calculated based on 20 years + 296 days. 

However, I completed my IE and went on to an Indefinite Period of Service (IPS - up to CRA), so since I was under the old rules, I had to serve 28 years in order to retire without penalty. Now that I've hit that milestone, I can retire at anytime with an immediate unreduced annuity.  This is where buying back my Reserve time really pays off.    My maximum pension date is now 296 days PRIOR to me completing 35 years Regular Force Service.  In short, I will retire with the maximum pension possible (based on 35 years of service) despite having only served just over 34 years in the Regular Force. 

Pension benefits are based on years of pensionable service.  Pension eligibility/penalties can be affected by terms of service.
 
Pusser said:
Pension benefits are based on years of pensionable service.  Pension eligibility/penalties can be affected by terms of service.

Incorrect.  Under the updated CFSA, annuities are based on days of CAF service, not pensionable service.  There are a number of instances where those two numbers may differ, particularly for members of the Reserve Force deemed to be members of the Regular Force under the CFSR and thus part of CFSA part I, not part I.1.
 
dapaterson said:
Incorrect.  Under the updated CFSA, annuities are based on days of CAF service, not pensionable service.  There are a number of instances where those two numbers may differ, particularly for members of the Reserve Force deemed to be members of the Regular Force under the CFSR and thus part of CFSA part I, not part I.1.

How was my statement incorrect?  Under what circumstance would CAF service NOT be pensionable service?  Or are you quibbling over the fact that I said "years" instead of "days?"  I'm aware that annuities are actually calculated based on precise numbers of days, but most people think in terms of years.
 
Pensionable service may include days that are not paid CAF service: for example, someone who is enrolled in Part I as a reservist, who reverts to part time reserve service.  I know someone with 27 years of pensionable service who has 16 years of CAF service within those 27.  Precision is important.
 
dapaterson said:
Pensionable service may include days that are not paid CAF service: for example, someone who is enrolled in Part I as a reservist, who reverts to part time reserve service.  I know someone with 27 years of pensionable service who has 16 years of CAF service within those 27.  Precision is important.

Yes, precision is important, but note that I never said "paid service."  I said "pensionable service."  So, in my case, I was granted 296 days of "pensionable service" for my time in the Reserve.  That consisted of 110 days "Previous Full Time Paid Service (PFTPS) plus 1/4 X all my other Reserve Service.  Although I was pretty keen as a young guy, I can assure you that I was not spending one out of every four days at my Reserve unit, so not all of my "pensionable service" was paid service.  I stand by my original statement:

Pension benefits are based on years (OK, days) of pensionable service.  Pension eligibility/penalties can be affected by terms of service.
 
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