Reserves showing up for tasks injured?

[Jarnhamar]

In the reserves why do we send injured soldiers on physically demanding jobs tasks and even work up training for overseas?

A friend of mine was just put in charge of close to a dozen privates and corporals for a tasking. No less than 3 of them showed up with work restrictions. 2 of them pretty major.

If the tasking is, oh say enemy force, why would we send soldiers on that tasking who
can't carry a rucksack,
can't carry their C7,
can't WEAR their tacvest and
can't sleep in the field over night?

It reminds me of seeing soldiers show up for driving tasks ( Read 404's required ) without any 404's?
"Well just find them a desk job or something, find something they CAN do"
Why should it be up to a junior leader to cater to an individual showing up for a job knowing full well they will be unable to carry out their job?

Same goes with work up training for tour. Reserve soldiers at the pte/cpl level showing up for the job broken.
PT on own time, no webbing marches, must attend physio therapy Mondays wendsdays and Thursdays (Defiantly not Fridays  : ). They spend 6 (now 12) months on a chit and still deploy.
What?

I just don't understand it.
Sending soldiers who are physically unable to do a physically demanding job, to me, seems counter productive.

 

[ArmyRick]

Class B contracts can be terminated if an individual showed up lacking proper qualification...

 

[George Wallace]

"Universality of Service" can justify their Release.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

"Universality of Service" can justify their Release.

Of course there is that option but...the question is really "why are PRes unit sending soldiers to do a job they are unfit for.  Further, IMO, if we start releasing PRes soldiers for (assumingly) temporary MELs, we'd have to do that across the board in the CF and that isn't likely to happen. 

Would the Reg Force unit they are augmenting send unfit/injured soldiers to do the job?  I would think no.  Then why are PRes units doing it?

IMO, they should be RTU'd at the unit expense, with the employing units CoC addressing the issue to the Area HQ so the Area HQ can make appropriate direction to the CBGs in the Area.  That would address the issue at the highest level.

My first question would be "do these PRes soldiers have a currect BFT completed?".  If they passed the BFT and were injured after, why did the unit send them on tasking?  If there are no checks in place, then the terms of employment for PRes soldiers should include "most not have the following MELs; XYZ" or something to that effect.

If they are on restricted duties, could they not be sent to the MO to see if perhaps a T-CAT is not required, and if on a TCAT, their employability would then be able to be dealt with as opposed to temp MELs or whatever they are on?

 

[George Wallace]

Looks like we live in different worlds.

 

[Staff Weenie]

The problem has more than one dimension.

First - there is, for the most part, absolutely no repercussion on the unit (and ultimately the CO) that sends such people on tasks. National HQ's task regional HQ's, which task Formation HQ's which task units - send X people for a task, or risk losing candidates off of courses. On the CFTPO system, a name is entered and everybody is happy.....until Cpl Bloggins presents his/her chit.... But nobody goes back through the chain to LCol Smith and says "you sent 8x broken troops away this summer, your PER will be adverse as a result." Make a CO more accountable and it may just help.

Second - While I can only speak for the HSS side of the house (was Natl Res Tasker for a few years), our HQ was so desperate for staff that I was directed to take anything with close to the right rank, a pair of opposable thumbs, and a pulse - having a GCS higher than 6 was an option. Invariably, we would get complaints - "Sgt Jones is an absolute idiot - never send him again". Next year, when we were on the verge of cancelling a course, I'd be asked to find out what Sgt Jones was doing at the moment.

Third, units like to dump their problems, if only for a few months, onto somebody else. I've even seen units snow each other over soldier's transfers...."Sure, she's a great soldier"....when the pers file finally arrives weeks after the member, you see all the RW, NES, and C&P problems - now your problems.

Finally, some soldiers just outright lie to squeak through the system with the minimum of work/effort, or take advantage of it. We were just joking yesterday about soldiers who actually laminate their chits so they can use them for years. Or the soldiers who bounce from doc to doc until they find just the right one who will give them the magic ticket out of PT.

 

[skydiver]

G'day..
I am at a Reserve CBG HQ and we see this all too often.

There two usual causes:

1. The injured guys weren't injured when they applied for the task. They usually get hockeyed or motorcycled while awaiting task start day and if they already have all their paperwork nobody at the unit sees them again before they head for CFB Whatever. The soldier needs the coin so he is not going to call up two days prior and say "I am broken and I can't go soldierin".

2. The improperly qualified ones (ie no 404s) were not properly screened by the unit. Perhaps because the Ops WO was already tasked or on leave and the guy filling in on the CFTPO doesn't have a clue or doesn't give a hoot.

These are the two most common reasons I have seen.

Cure? Don't task the Ops Guys..like that will ever happen. Have every tasked soldier clear out through the unit OR the morning that he leaves for the task..also highly unlikely.

Just gotta keep on it and hope that next task season we have fewer of these little screw ups.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Looks like we live in different worlds.

I am not sure what you mean?  I might have missed something?

 

[BinRat55]

2. The improperly qualified ones (ie no 404s) were not properly screened by the unit. Perhaps because the Ops WO was already tasked or on leave and the guy filling in on the CFTPO doesn't have a clue or doesn't give a hoot.

Cure? Don't task the Ops Guys..like that will ever happen. Have every tasked soldier clear out through the unit OR the morning that he leaves for the task..also highly unlikely.

I agree - somewhat. It shouldn't start at the screening, it should be a continuous process - your DAG file is a living document. Quals are gained, quals lapse. There is a reason that Training Cell is on the DAG sheets. A units responsibility to send a qualified member is imperative - most CFTPO's contain vital info regarding what qualifications are needed for the position. Now i'm no dummy, I realize that sometimes the "internal mandate" is to get a person into the position and we'll worry about who has what qualifications over there, but that is becoming flawed the more that "specialized"qualifications are necessary. And again, that is a unit's responsibility - the DAG sheet is there for a reason.

As for the medical side of the house, once the MIR signs off on a healthy member and the time in between DAG out and deployment happens to bring some hard luck to the deploying member, the only catchall in place is the UMS / MIR in theater. As was alluded to in an earlier post, member needs the coin or even has a sense of duty and honour and says he'll suck it up because they are soldier so they won't say anything HERE - once they arrive you have to clear in through the MIR - it would be picked up then (or as soon as the member is tasked to do something he/she cannot do).

Cure? Unit reprimand for sending an unqualified soldier / airman / seaman to a location where the potential for putting someones life at risk is at the forefront. Unfit status undisclosed until in theatre? Charge the member and send them home with the mail. Drastic I know, but an example needs to be made to get things to an acceptable standard.

My 2 cents.

 

[geo]

Let's face it... if the person is unfit & / or unable to work upon arrival ... send him / her home!!!

Personnel reporting in for a class B are supposed to pass an express test - make sure that they do - else, send em home !!!

 

[Redeye]

This can be a nightmare for the troop involved.  I know of a case where a Cpl was supposed to be going to Petawawa to do his PLQ Mod 6 then go straight onto a tasking in Meaford as a BMQ instructor.  The week before his contract was to start, he blew his knee out during a unit exercise.  Bye bye course, bye bye summer tasking as well.  He had no civilian employment at the time as he expected to be away all summer, and was then medically unfit for work in his civilian field as well.

G'day..
I am at a Reserve CBG HQ and we see this all too often.

There two usual causes:

1. The injured guys weren't injured when they applied for the task. They usually get hockeyed or motorcycled while awaiting task start day and if they already have all their paperwork nobody at the unit sees them again before they head for CFB Whatever. The soldier needs the coin so he is not going to call up two days prior and say "I am broken and I can't go soldierin".

2. The improperly qualified ones (ie no 404s) were not properly screened by the unit. Perhaps because the Ops WO was already tasked or on leave and the guy filling in on the CFTPO doesn't have a clue or doesn't give a hoot.

These are the two most common reasons I have seen.

Cure? Don't task the Ops Guys..like that will ever happen. Have every tasked soldier clear out through the unit OR the morning that he leaves for the task..also highly unlikely.

Just gotta keep on it and hope that next task season we have fewer of these little screw ups.

 

[geo]

If the Cpl blew out his knee on a unit FTX, then the man is entitled to compensation thru the CF.
He might not get that course he wanted but, if the Med O says he is unfit to work and he does not work.... he is entitled to compensation via the CF

 

[Redeye]

So you would think - but it's apparently not that simple.  It's been months and they're still trying to sort it out.

If the Cpl blew out his knee on a unit FTX, then the man is entitled to compensation thru the CF.
He might not get that course he wanted but, if the Med O says he is unfit to work and he does not work.... he is entitled to compensation via the CF

 

[geo]

I will grant you that there are flaws in the system ... BUT, my section deals with the compensation claims for LFQA.
We've got it working pretty well @ present.... and when there are too many hurdles to "beat" within the military system, we refer the individuals to the provincial Workman's Compensation Board (CSST) - an organisation that works real quick

 

[c_canuk]

Now i'm no dummy, I realize that sometimes the "internal mandate" is to get a person into the position and we'll worry about who has what qualifications over there, but that is becoming flawed the more that "specialized"qualifications are necessary. And again, that is a unit's responsibility - the DAG sheet is there for a reason.

they did that on my tour to close out Op Danaca... I was assigned a Det Mbr pos, ended up loosing my leaf for the duration of my tour, showed up as a Cpl, was asked "aren't you supposed to be a MCpl" - wait one.... there is that better?

then found out I was assigned to be det cmdr but they just stuck us in positions willy nilly to plough through the paperwork. The consequence was I was shorted 5 dollars a day and my MPRR is inaccurate... though I have copies of my PER stating exactly what I was doing, at what rank, and how well I did it.

it was obvious when we compared posting messages and a newly minted Cpl fresh off his 3s was assigned as Det Cmdr and I was supposed to be one of his Det Mbrs holding a plq and 5s qual  :

 

[Sarge137]

Yes, Reserve and Reg force troops do show up for taskings injured. I have personally send 3 back in the past 2 months at the Areas expense. That being said, I have also let a lot more continue onto the tasking in order to keep the crse alive. I could also rant for days about the shape of soldiers showing up for tasks but why bother. Point I was trying to make; Area's, CBG's and Unit's have been SA'd the cost to return the soldier to his home unit.