Respect for those who support People who suffer from Operation Stress Injuries

[Vets Dottir]

This is a great subject and I'm really glad to see ptsd and mental health issues talk ... out of the closet and open for discussion. For that I thank the Veterans who got this ball rolling that pushed and worked hard, and still do, to learn, study, inform, and learn what actually helps people when they need the help, especially our Veterans, but also the civi poplulations who have ptsd issues unrelated to military service.

I think like anything else, fakers happen here too, and probably mostly for gain ... avoiding responsibility and accountibility. I can't imagine anyone picking ptsd or mental health issues to fake for any other reasons. Normal human beings would not wish these kinds of health issues on their enemies for what it does to their lives and lifestyles, relationships. Too many people are cruel and make life so much harder to impossible to live and do by how they treat those with these kinds of issues. I think they just don't know the realities and just strike out. Like someone said, like kicking someone in the nuts/belly .. when down and not down through choice. These people need a hand up not a kick in the gut. I ogten want to say to people ... "Hmmmm, you could be next. Then you'll know what it is and what it's really like and I hope you'll call on me"

It's wonderful to see that awareness and attitudes are getting real, and more so all the time. And it's really wonderful to see the many in here and other forums etc who understand and are of the "give them a hand up" ilk.

:yellow: :nod:

 

[Vets Dottir]

PS: BTW, I would make a wild guess that there are a whole LOT more people working to cover up and hide their ptsd/etc problems than anywhere close to those who falsely claim or exagerate ptsd for gain. And I would think a lot of the "hiding" is because of the stigma and knowing pretty much what to expect in how many will react towards them.

I speak as a civi and unprofessional one at that and do know a number of military service related ptsd sufferers. I guess because of all that I also salute all those with ptsd problems who dare to talk about them openly, out of the closet, and that can only be encoruaging to lots who would like to come out of the closet but have felt really alone with it all and been too worried or scared to open up. Maybe I'll go even farther and say that those who are open about it are the hands reaching out that the others can grasp hold of as their "hand up"

 

[mariomike]

I am no fan of psychological debriefing. Especially if it is mandatory. Few things stir up more emotion than the subject of CISD. I read that 9,000 psychological debriefers descended upon NYC after 9-11. It was found that while PTSD symptoms were high immediately after the attacks, that they soon returned to near normal levels within a few months.  Some studies have shown that CISD ( Critical Incident Stress Debriefing ) actually makes people worse. I think some companies and organizations fear lawsuits from their members if they don't provide CISD.
I personally believe in psychological first aid. Anyone can do it. Do not force anyone to talk. But, if they do: listen to them. Show them you care. Find out what they need. Protect them.
By all means, do visit your staff psychologist if you feel the need.

 

[Vets Dottir]

It would be interesting to learn from a lot of people who went through that kind of "debriefing" to learn how they figure it helped them, or didn't.

Again, I'm a civi, and have never been through that sort of thing and no longer have kids in school, but know every time something tragic or a big scare happens, the schools have that sort of thing for the kids (and staff).

There were a couple of tragic things happened in this town since I moved here about 3 years ago and I'm sure they had CSID workers come in? for those events too. Some Paramedics died from some toxic fumes one year (VERY SAD!) and there was that helicopter crash in town, just a few blocks from my place. BTW ... those paramedics, their ambulance I think sits at their station, unused as a tribute to honour them? I'd have to verify that but I think its so) I remember them when I walk by there and see it all the time.

 

[OldSolduer]

Critical Incident Stress Debriefings can be very beneficial when it is conducted properly and conducted by someone who has a grip on the situation.
Three of us were en route to CFB Shilo one night in October 2007 when we came across a horrific vehicle accident. Two people burnt to death in front of us while a third one died on the road, I am very sure of that. Mind you, I'm not a medical professional, so take that for what its worth. I know he had a compound fracture of the left femur, because I felt it in my hands.
Three days later the RSM had called in a social worker type and we related our thoughts on the whole situation in a CISD. It cleared up a lot of doubts we had....could we have done more...and we came to the conclusion we had done all we could. I feel it helped us move forward. As far as I know, none of us have nightmares, nor do we relive the event. One has gone on to TF 3-09, and he's doing fine.

Just my two cents here.

One hint/suggestion: If you are thinking of having somebody brief the troops on PTSD, use someone who has had it and is dealing with it effectively. Just my opinion.

 

[mariomike]

Three of us were en route to CFB Shilo one night in October 2007 when we came across a horrific vehicle accident. Two people burnt to death in front of us while a third one died on the road, I am very sure of that. Mind you, I'm not a medical professional, so take that for what its worth. I know he had a compound fracture of the left femur, because I felt it in my hands.

Old Soldier, if I ever fall asleep behind the wheel driving through Manitoba, I hope that you are first on the scene.

 

[OldSolduer]

Old Soldier, if I ever fall asleep behind the wheel driving through Manitoba, I hope that you are first on the scene.

Thank you very much sir.

For those that doubt whether or not PTSD exists, take it from me...it does. It varies from person to person, and some deal with it better than others.
Also, LCol Grossman (author of On Combat and On Killing) gives some very good pointers on preparation for combat and killing as well as methods of dealing with the after effects. These books should be required reading for all officers and WOs. Many of my troops have read both.

 

[mariomike]

It would be interesting to learn from a lot of people who went through that kind of "debriefing" to learn how they figure it helped them, or didn't.

I'm thankful it's no longer mandatory. My partner and I hated it.
http://www.jems.com/news_and_articles/columns/Bledsoe/Killing_Vampires.html
http://publicsafety.com/article/article.jsp?id=2026&siteSection=8

 

[Vets Dottir]

Sounds like, as with so many things, there are a lot of pros and cons for the approach. I really appreciate those two links and will go back to them when I have time to read through all of the responses/comments. Looks like a lot of people commented.

That On Combat and Killing sounds like a good book for all kinds of people to read just for FYI and to think about.

I've never been in work where crisis, trauma, traumatized people and/or higher risk of death in general goes with the territory of the line of work but I do think, just logically, that part of the training should have some essential focus on possible scenarios and coping and dealing with them before, during and after (coping skills) ... note that I say that not knowing what things are taught in training for any jobs/work.

People have had a whole lifetime of developing and using their own habitual coping styles since birth. My impression is that if they need help they will show people that (by their behavior) or they will ask for it (make it easy for people to ask for it when they feel ready) Peoples coping styles are what holds their sanity together so they can function. When the coping styles are causing more problems then they are helping, that's the time to get help.

What works for me dosn't work for so & so because they're not me.

When I see the news where something bad has happened and a CISD crowd descends (on a school, community, workplace etc)  I always wonder how much worse that can make things and make things bigger than what normally would have been. I also see where it can help some come to grips with things. So in the end, I guess what I'm saying is that I have mixed feelings about the whole idea.

As an individual, if something happens, I would wish for knowing there are people I can go to to help me deal with things if I'm having a hard time, but I certainly don't want a crowd of helpers "in my face" and then I also have to deal with their need to help me on top of trying to get through this my way.

Seems practical to think that any training should include a lot of information about "possible situations and after effects (ptsd included) " self exploration about coping styles and building on them to handle situations and have resourses via the job for when a person needs to ask for help when they need to.

I've talked to a lot of people privately about how their work has effected them and these kinds of works are high stress. part of the job. Makes sense that handling that should be part of training.

Just my opinions and thoughts ... someone who hasn't walked your walk/jobs but I sure know a lot of what ptsd and the like can do to a person.

 

[mariomike]

You, Vets Dotir, are compassionate toward helping others.  If you work in a "high performance" system, efficiency is measured by unit hour utilization which calculates your number of transports ( not calls ) per hour of deployment. For some, that can lead to burnout. Your is job is to show up and try to bring not only help, but encouragement to people. That in itself can be very rewarding.

 

[Vets Dottir]

Thanks MarioMike, compassion I do have, and probably a result of my own life experiences from real early in life and on. My "compassion" is being pretty wasted/un-used these days as I'm not involved helping anyone, anything, anywhere these days (working on it though ... have disabilities to work around, plus age to consider etc) I've done lots of little volunteer work type things in past (people helping sorts)

I've heard about a lot, and seen a lot, of "burnout" in lots of people who do high stress and/or risk and trauma type jobs dealing with people in stress or crisis, so have an idea of the toll some work can take, including overwork and no time to recharge, and also hear and know about a lot of the "rewards of work" like that for a lot of people.

All I really know is that it must be really hard to come up ways to handle people in situations and who work those situations that makes it better and easier (and quicker results?) all round. I have a whole lot of respect for everyone in any line of work that deals with people on these levels, and also what it takes, and takes out of them, to do these jobs.

I know it always hits me really sad when I read stories about people being casualties (physical or mental) of their work. And what would the rest of us do without those looking out for everyone else and putting themselves on the line. I think the general public doesn't appreciate enough what people who work these jobs do for them personally and as a whole ... probably because they just don't know enough or even think about it.

Sad to see signs at the local embulance depot lately ... "Save Our Paramedics" ... I don't know the whole story, something about paramedics being at risk of being sued when someone they've gone out to rescue dies or something and the paramedics were made liable and are being sued??? Yes, I need to learn more about what this is all about......

My hat is off to all of you, and I know mostly all of you give your job everything because you really do care about people. You wouldn't have got in your lines of work if you didn't, right?

On that note ... take care and thank you all for all you do, or try to do for everyone else!

 

[mariomike]

Being a veteran's daughter, I think you have done more towards the prevention of PTSD than you give yourself credit for. I hold to the rather old fashioned belief that behind every great man stands a great woman.

 

[Vets Dottir]

Thanks for your kind words MarioMike.

My Dad ( a PPCLI Sargent) actually served at home training soldiers in Shilo and also had to do things like transporting German PoWs within Canada, all important jobs to do, but never made it overseas like his siblings and friends went (bad feet I was told) Also I was raised by my mom though I had a good relationship with him by visits and calls and he passed away young of cancer so I missed out on hearing all his stories as well as missed other family stories, moved all the way to BC when I was real young. I'm catching up on the histories by researching family and WW2 history for them though (Lest I and my family don't know or forget and can pass on the history )

You know, I think the majority of families are not what they used to be, not as much "family there for each other" like in past and I would guess thats why there's more need for counsellors and help etc etc etc these days, filling roles that "family" used to fill. I know thats sure true for a lot of people, but I also know a lot of people have very close knit families, including "work buddies families groups" who are strong helps and supports through hard times.

My how times have changed (spoken like a true middle aged person ... you know you're gettin' old when you start talking about "the olden days" )

I guess I never know how I'll react to extremes and crisis until it happens. Often I keep my head and do what's got to be done and then react after the fact but it really depends on all sorts of things at the time. I've been in supportive peer support groups and also even facilitated and ran some, but as a peer, not a professional. Haven't done that for years! They can be great helps for people when there's a practical point to them and not just wallowing and making it bigger and worse.

I'm freeflowing again ... as I do so often (just ignore all the yada yada please )

Have a great weekend everyone!

 

[Vets Dottir]

PS: By the way, it's really neat that you picked up on the "Dottir" part It's my way of remembering and honouring my dad to use that handle.