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Retention / Attrition in the Infantry - Ideas???

Mad Dog

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Hey Fellas,

I've noticed a few threads on similar topics, but I'd like to get your opinions on:

a.  why do troops get out of the infantry?

b.  what would help keep them in?

c.  how do we fix the problem?

From my time as a Pl Comd, I suspect it's mostly because soldiers join to do the stuff they read about and see on movies, but instead find that they end up spending lots of time playing cards, doing vehicle maintenance (again...) among other things.  Pay doesn't seem to be the issue.

For the young officers and Snr NCO's out there, I'd like your opinion on the major reasons why conducting cool training is difficult. (Time spent on admin instead of trg, resources etc.) 

Info will be used in a paper I'm writing before going to Staff College.  Who knows, maybe we can make a difference!

 
Mad Dog I think you nailed it! I have lost track of the amount of times I have tried to organize some training that doesn't cost a nickel to the crown and had it shot down so the troops could sit around the platoon room waiting for an O group to tell them we had PT the next morning!
I still think the average troop in the infantry leaves because they are tired of either sitting around doing vehicle maintainance, or worse going on exercise and doing the same exercise over and over.
I recall one year in Wainwright that I thought our battalion trace looked familiar so at endex when we got home I found an old trace from the year before and it was IDENTICAL. Report lines, boundaries, mortar positions, the only thing that changed was the names of report lines and any code words!
It doesn't take long to get frustrated when you see that happening!

 
From personal experiance; many of the men who I know who got out of the infantry was for health reasons. Although everybody's got that CWO who's was born with a ruck on his back and has been doin it hard since he was 17 years old, but more often you see the young guys looking at the mature guys who 'Move a little slow' because they've got a bad back/knees/ankles/neck/feet etc.

So i would conclude they themselves are beginning to experiance health probs or they want to avoid them early.

Secondly, think guys get in, realize its not all fun and start to think about the idea of how specialization COULD help them get a job if/when they get out that pertains to civvy life (engineers, Sigs linesman etc could work for a phone company type deal.)

Finally though it is a very honorable trade, one of the oldest known to man, many onlookers gazing in might say they lack life skills or employability or the technical prowess to do certain civvy tech trades-their words not mine guys.

thats my 2 cents so-if your gonna jump on my back about, its my personal feelings and some fact i pick up along the way. :skull:
 
There just isn't much for a young private to aspire to anymore.

Back in the day, you could try for the Airborne, be a Pioneer, join the Mortar Platoon, or go Anti-Armour. Today, what can you do if Recce just isn't your thing?  Not many guys want to spend their entire career in a Rifle Coy, so they re-muster or get out. Life in any job is more rewarding if you consider yourself a specialist within your trade. The Pioneers were (and some still are) so proud of their beards.  The same goes with the Airborne and their maroon berets. It was something obvious that new privates would look up to and work towards.

You want to keep troops in the infantry? Give them something new and exciting to aspire to.
 
The lack of cool, challenging and meaningful training at the expense of administrative sillyness. Liability and financial concerns and lack of imagination on the part of the senior leadership. Status quo, no training unjuries or issues and everyone bucking for promotion gets their ticks in the box. Retention is someone elses problem......It seems to be a pattern CF wide.

My $.02

TM
 
a.  why do troops get out of the infantry?
I'll go on the stand point of why troops leave after their BE, which is where I sit and observe the most of. First would be a sense of falsehood of what their job was said to be by recruiters and that. Recruiters and even the DND website show an infantry soldier as someone always on the go-go, getting qualified with driver courses, machineguns, and so on. They come to Bat and find that it takes a long time to get all those qualifications and you spend more time doing nothing rather than those things told to them.
Next, we'll go into being taunted with the grand prize of 'a tour' constantly and never having it pull through. In morning parade the CO will tell us that Timbuktu is now on the CF's radar as a possible deployment and now our unit is next up to bat. So everyone is talking about it, some go and find out copious amounts of information about the country as in what exactly is going on in the area and why we may go there for a tour. We all get hyped up and the next day it's now still being confirmed. Nothing will be heard about it for a month, and then in another parade (after we have all given up on the chance of going, the CO will say again that Timbuktu has come up again and we should be prepared to get more on it. The cycle continues on and on until you realise that you probably won't get a tour in your first BE. This is also compounded with the massive rumor mill of the infantry with 'Oh, I heard on the news that PM Martin said he's deploying troops to Sudan soon' and that.
Creativity is another aspect in regards to ex's. We are told that the platoon attack is the bread and butter of the infantry battallion, or the defensive is the meat of our trade. So you go out and do countless drills over and over again - digging your holes, assaulting a single (imaginary) trench with an enemy that stands up in the open to shoot at you, or pulling the sled around because your patrol base has been found for the 9th time that night by an enemy force you know hasn't left their tent tonight because it's too cold. It is very redundant over and over, and I know that combining those (useless) ex's budgets and spending that money on a single larger training event would be much more welcome. My unit went to Ft. Lewis, WA last year to do OBUA training and it was two weeks of pure fun no matter how many times we had to assault the same 5 story hotel over and over. It was new and it made it fun.
PT is another issue and I discussed this in my pre-PLQ training with some guys. you wake up in the morning and go for a run. Next day, a run, day after a slow run. Then maybe sports, followed with a Friday long run. If PT was varied more between weights, circut training, runs, sports, and teamwork building PT it wouldn't make each day the same and take away drudgery. Also, if there were more activities that were physically oriented but hidden under the context of other things (like more CoyVSCoy competitions in relays or something) that would take away thoughts of PT and focus everyone on pulling through for their group. This, in my opinion, becomes exponentially beneficial the larger of a group you use in regards to how much PT you can pile on without mental wear to the troop. Section, PL, Coy, even Battallion level are all possible but it takes motivation from leadership to pull off - then again, that's what they're there for.
This will follow into BS taskings which I know have caused many future OTs or relases with those I work with. Cleaning over and over and over again is, in my opinion, pointless. Let's clean the NODLRs again, though we don't even have batteries for them anymore and we haven't even used them in 8 years. Afternoon after afternoon is spent cleaning stuff that doesn't need to be cleaned anymore. I know weapons have the 7-day cleaning cycle and all, but after cleaning it for the umteenth time though you haven't used your C7 in a year and it's still oiled turns people off. And, if you are a keener and clean it and hand it in, you'll just get someone else's weapon (leadership usually) that is dirty as hell. So, to prevent that, people spend 2hrs cleaning their firing pin retaining pin to appear to be busy, which leads to a lazy afternoon. 2 weeks of those can kill morale. Or there is also cleaning the cage items (winter gear) in summer. I don't know the grand scheme of things upstairs, but at the private level it's pointless make-work projects.
I suppose there are the injury or specialization aspects of it but those are really outweighed by how pointless it seems to come to work somedays.

b.   what would help keep them in?
Keep people busy. Don't give out make-work projects, but actual activities that are useful. I don't see why courses don't run yearround in the unit as though they suck sometimes, they are useful. If you think that the CF can't afford such a task because of budget, then start getting everyone all the theory of everything done. Then, during PCF cycle time, you can take everyone out and instead of being on a Comms course for 8 weeks, you can do the practical portions and field parts of everything you learned. When we did our workup training to OBUA, there was the official workup training stuff we did and then the extra stuff your section commander would throw at you like various stacking styles and tha. I'm sure none of them are Urban qualified as per CF paper standards, but they were teaching us what they have learned from experience (and is more often better than PAM instructions). They actively passed on their knowledge w/o having the OC order it, and even the stories were worth it sometimes. There's also unofficial training on weapons so that way, when you do go on ex and the guys officially trained on say, the .50Cals are gone, you still have people who can skillfully assemble and use the weapons.
So, keeping people busy is one, the next is remove the carrot that always dangles infront of us. There is a difference between informing the troops of world events and taunting them with false promises. The little "Oh, and there's a 40% chance we're going to Timbuktu to help with civil authorities" at parade and actual information. If big world events break out that we need to know about, then have a CO's hour (or OC's hour) where everyone is taken to the ParaSim room (sorry to those who don't have one) and sat down. He could have a little presentation stating 'These are the facts of Timbuktu: militants have overthrown the ogverment and are killing 2000 civilians a day' and 'Timbuktu is here on the map. It's had similar events in the past when the militant group was formerly in power and overthrown as well ten years ago'. He needs to give us facts about what IS going on there rather than what MAY go on there in the future. This could also expand everyone's knowledge of the world which is beneficial so we have a broader understanding of a situation. One thing that has been done is the deployment schedule coming out which shows that 'Group A' is being deployed here in 2006 and if anything hairy happens while they are out, 'Group B' will be ready to head out.
Relevant training ex's and tasking to todays military needs like OBUA, crowd control, how to recognise possible threats in complex terrain during peacetime conditions (ie. what to look for and how to react to people with bombs on their back). How to deal with non-combat situations like humanitarian projects and likes of the sort. Quite often we work alongside Americans and can utilize their power and technology in a time fo need such as enemy positions (just an opinion) are usually airstriked, arty'd, or blasted well beyond before you pull a full platoon/Coy attack with a left flank approach. This also comes into play with even working with the other elements. It may be a hassle to bring a troop of engineers with us, and a abttery of arty on an ex (I'm pretty sure they are also sitting around a lot, so there should be no hassle) and incorperating them with Att's and Det's. Throw a sapper with your point recce on the bridge or things of the sort. We're fortunate that the 408th is just down the road from us and they play with us frequently, but even then it's seldom a tactical Att, as they may give 4 guys a ride for the fun on one afternoon or run aerial recce for the Strats (of which I can guarantee they need more practice with). They could give us Aerial Spotter training, more helo insertion into places rather than the Pickle Busride to Purple bridge.

Just a few of my rubles
-Spooks
 
Well thought out and good post Spooks. From a rental point of view, the frustrating situation you described was what I experienced in 1995 in Wpg, and why I didn't join the reg force as a quick pick.
 
Excellent post spooks....

I'll be chiming in here when I get some time tonight.
 
That's what I figured.  Thanks for the input so far.

Seems like the most important thing is good training (urban ops, simunition, creative ranges, foreign weapons, jump courses...that kink of stuff.)  Now, how many of you are gonna shoot me for this...Everybody knows that we've got some sort of pay raise coming up (for argument's sake, lets say 2.5%.)  Would you rather get the full raise, or only half of it, and see the other half redirected to training?

Also, I acknowledge that the loss of the Cbt Sp Platoons will be tough...rifle companies are tough on the body.  For the guys that have had enough of it, but still want to serve, I think the opportunities for OT should be better.  The Yanks are learning the hard way that their tradesmen are vulnerable because they aren't adequately trained in basic soldier skills.  Having infanteers re-muster to the tech trades would help solve that problem.  Also, they'd probably be able to provide even better service, since they'd understand exactly what the troops need.

Any Pl Comd's / NCO's out there want to comment on their time available to organize trg?  I suspect you're probably too buried in paperwork to be checking this site.  Seems to me our admin should be streamlined.  Yes, PDRs are important, but they shouldn't take weeks to complete for your platoon.  Same goes for Pers File Reviews just to promote a Pte to Cpl.  Are they really required?  That's how I felt...Anyone share the feeling?

I'll post a few more ideas when I get back to work tomorrow.
 
A pay raise cut?! That's insane!!
Actually, it isn't. The way most of us young guys feel about it is A) We didn't even work for the raise, it's just a reaction to the civy worker pay raise and B) we're only looking for the back pay because we enjoy large chunks rather than $10 extra to spend on a paycheck (or whatever it comes to). Heck, I'll speak for myself on this, I wouldn't care if I never even saw any of that raise if all that money went into training, equipment, etc. I make a lot of money right now and I live comfortably. I have noticed that after a really boring week of work, I'll go and blow and entire paycheck on the weekend to have fun or whatnot. If work was more busy/pleasurable, I wouldn't need to do that...now I'm diverting off topic.

I don't know about your comment on 'the loss of the Cbt Sp Platoons', Mad Dog. We had Recce and DFS, but now DFS has been renamed to Weapons Platoon and is using .50Cal 'Gunwagon' LUVW's which has opened a whole new area many are aspiring to get into. As for training that we, at the low levels and up should start receiving on a daily basis I think should be:
Urban Ops (OBUA, non-combat Urban, and E&E)
    E&E because in complex terrain, esp. urban, it is VERY easy to get lost or seperated from your group (I did so twice in 5min at night) and a soldier NEEDS to learn at the basic 'just arrived from BIQ' level how to keep his cool and regroup in such a situation. I can tell you that though it was a training event, it was probably the highest adrenaline, high stress, scariest thing I've been in as a Private so far.
Simmunition
    It is a good tool, though highly bogged with safeties to make it worth while. Wearing the Vader helms (Oh do they fog fast when you're ready to go) make target identification hard, and peripheral vision narrowed. We tried wearing just the new ballistic glasses and trying to keep headshots down and it worked (glasses are a lot easier to defog than the helm) and if you do get a headshot whatever. It may break skin, may bruise, goto the medic and get her fixed. Now your team can practice casEvac frm front assault teams. We do lots of other stuff that can hurt us just as much, and we do it with less equipment. On the end, Simmunition does allow you to 'shoot' a living target rather than fig11's and it does teach you to not be stupid and place yourself in a position to get shot. Bad thing about it was range, but we had the support weapons and snipers with Miles to solve that.
Foreign weapons
    That would be cool, maybe even for those interested, lessons on how various weapons work and terminologies (ie Blowback, recoil-operated, double-action, etc) Basically know the terminologies, the benefits and drawbacks of certain designs, and things like that. Sort of like Weapons SMEs.
Basic Demolitions
    This was suggested to me by an ex-Pioneer who taught me on my DP2A course. He's worked with a lot of groups and I believe it was the Rangers. Each have a door change on their back, so when you're in an OBUA stack, the #2 reaches to the #1's pack, grabs his charge and places it on the door. That way everyone has a charge, you don't compromise hall security with #1 reaching for his, and you don't have to look around for 'the guy with the charges'. Just basic demo as in mostly to do with breaching doors.
    Also, as a side note, since I don't know where to put this. If you're gonna increase OBUA training, please bring in more shotguns and pistols. The shotguns can be issued to to 1 per section or something as an alt weapons (like how MCpls have a C8 and C7 issued) so he can use that in OBUA (doors, rooms, etc) and more pistols (and training beyond current DP2A standards) on them. I know the arguments away from 9mm power and the oh-so-old Browning, but they would very very wanted in OBUA (not every high up at a desk who never leaves the Op Camp needs a pistol either, good place to start looking is there)
Jump
    I was told recently though they are not running any more courses for a while becasue a study showed that there were too many Jump qualified people in the CF right now. To me, that is a poor excuse. IMO, everyone in a light battallion should have their basic jump qualification and more than Recce with freefallers course. We don't necessarily need jump positions, but I'll use the example with us. Our JumpCoy was almost at 100% Jump-capapble and now this re-org means that a lot of new people will be shuffled into the jump Coy and they may not be qualified, so you're back to square one. It's been proven it's a good insertion technique, but most of all it tests characters and gives courage which I believe is important in a LIB.
Driving
  I'm not driver qualified, so what I may say here may be redundant. Since we are working in complex areas now, defensive driving offensive driving, etc. How to get your driving butt out of a hairy situation if you need to. Best part of the DDC is the lower insurance rates (esp for young guys) and they're usually up for such jobs. A advanced driving course would also be very fun for people and may lower attrition.
-=Languages=-
  I've been looking around for what the military offers for this because they are always in a pinch for people who speak the native tongue of a tour area, or the language of fellow Allies. What is there for language training for the average grunt (not IntOps) in the Infantry? Start teaching people or send them to school for languages like French, German, Russian, Spanish, Farsi, Portugese, Cantonese, Japanese, and other widely used languages. Not only will that give a better foot on the ground for tours, but it also gives a skill that a soldier can use after the military and become a civilian linguist or interpretor which would add to the list of 'related civilian trades' nicely since Infantry really only has 'Labourer, and Security'.

More of my rubles
-Spooks
 
Spooks, your rubles seem to be a solid currency.  Good stuff.  :salute:
 
Spooks, and others...

Great info.  Helps confirm in my mind that time away from the troops hasn't blurred my vision too much.

Regarding jumping, Spooks mentioned "but most of all it tests characters and gives courage which I believe is important in a LIB" I agree, but not only for LIBs.  One of the buzzwords I often hear in the trg system is "train to need," and since training is expensive, I understand why some folks strongly argue for it.  But...have they considered the benefits of trg people to jump.  Great motivator, something to strive for, and in the words of Monty "Parachute jumping tests and hardens a soldier under stress in a way nothing short of battle can do.  You never know about others.  But paratroopers will fight."

And I completely agree with becoming proficient with pistol, shotgun, Escape & Evasion, whatever.  As a Coy 2IC, my OC designed a coy March & Shoot in Dundurn.  Each platoon had to set up a range.  Each rge incorporated shotgun, pistol and C7 (grenade for one as well.)  Troops loved it!  But you wouldn't believe the grief we got trying to get the shotguns, or the ammo for that matter.  Initially, I was told "You have not entitlement..."  There needs to be some education.  Too many folks have been away from soldiers for too long.

OK, I think I've got enough input on what would motivate good troops to stay in.

I'd still like to hear from MCpl's and higher regarding the amount of admin, and suggestions on how to reduce it.  (Please remember, some paper is still required to keep track of things, but I'm sure there are some good ideas on how to reduce it to give you more time to develop and conduct training.)
 
Not Infantry[not even military for a long time] but if I could just chip in here, from my experience the main reason personall remustered to other trades was so that they could learn skills they could use on "civy street".
Everyone knows one day the ruck comes off, but the bills still have to be paid, and they are worried NOW that they will not have the skills required to get a decent job LATER.  Maybe on the down-time have courses along the lines of law-enforcement, etc.
Very vague, I know but I think you can see where I'm trying to go here, if we could alleviate some fears about the future, we could keep them doing what they do now for a longer period.
Bruce
 
Mad Dog said:
And I completely agree with becoming proficient with pistol, shotgun, Escape & Evasion, whatever. As a Coy 2IC, my OC designed a coy March & Shoot in Dundurn. Each platoon had to set up a range. Each rge incorporated shotgun, pistol and C7 (grenade for one as well.) Troops loved it! But you wouldn't believe the grief we got trying to get the shotguns, or the ammo for that matter. Initially, I was told "You have not entitlement..." There needs to be some education. Too many folks have been away from soldiers for too long.

I thought that your profile was familiar.  I remember that Dundurn ex well, we were actually talking about the fact it was probably one of the best ex's we have done in recent years.  Missing ROTO 11 and subsequent training that we were allowed to do at the Coy level has fostered an esprit de corps within the Coy that is maintained to this day!  Even the LAV attacks that we did delved from the normal attack on flat or slightly sloping uphill objectives to a very rolling terrain attack.  It shows that meaningful training can happen at the Coy Level without deploying the entire Bn....

I'd still like to hear from MCpl's and higher regarding the amount of admin, and suggestions on how to reduce it. (Please remember, some paper is still required to keep track of things, but I'm sure there are some good ideas on how to reduce it to give you more time to develop and conduct training.)

Sometimes one of the hardest things to do in regards of getting extra training is the planning.  It takes forever to get approval for things and to coordinate training areas even in the garrison is a heartache onto itself.  Not to mention anytime we get the approval to run some extra training we have to reinvent the wheel every time.  Some of the things that Spooks mentions above could happen pretty quickly if all the relevant training documents were kept on a common folder on the unit common drive.  That way a NCO could jump on the M drive grab a Navigation/SAT/Urban Ops package and he would have all the information in his hands, including what bookings have to happen and the relevant contact numbers (a check list of sorts).  It would involve some hard work in the beginning but after a few kicks at the can, all the wrinkles contained within in these "training plans", for lack of a better term, should be ironed out and training will be able to commence a heck of allot faster than it does now.

I'll add more later...O Grp time
 
Bump

Anyone else here with care to contribute to this? I think it's an excellent topic, I wouldn't mind hearing more about it from other esteemed infantry folks on the board. cheers, mdh
 
I have to go with what ghostwalk had said. I knew partially what I was getting into when I went full time, but I did not know the full picture. I knew there would be alot of time just sitting around killing time, which I accepted.
but when we lost all the specialty units in the btl that I wanted to do, I truly had nothing to aspire to do. I really love mortars, but I didn't want to rebadge, or same with being in anti-armour, and again we lost that. pioneers and mortars I could somewhat understand on why we lost them (although I still say it's important to have at least SOME guys in the unit capable of this role), but anti-armour? come on. I never have wanted to aspire to be in recce at all. so I really have nothing I want to aspire to. some guys want to drive a LAV, or be the gunner, personally I am more contempt with a c9 and a couple boxes of ammo.
as well is the lack of cool types of training; I mean when I go out in the field for all of two days tomorrow I know we'll be doing some stuff like fishing and rabbit snaring, as well as an attack on another company that has no idea that we're going to sure will be of some fun. but really the last time I did any cool training was back in what was it? november? when we did the jungle lanes with the pistols, shotguns, and c9 (ghostwalk correct me if I'm on the wrong month for when we did that range). I mean that's a large gap of doing vehicle maintenance, cleaning the lines, playing cards, saying the same joke with different wording everyday.
I have to agree as well that some foreign weapons training is needed. I remember shooting a .50 cal down in the states before I joined up. I loved shooting that thing so much, and would love to see stuff like that happen again. it's just to be the logistics to attempt to do that now is almost impossible.
I remember being told that back in the 80's there would be one week of praticing for an ex and then getting warning orders on friday and out in the field on monday till friday. that would be fun if done right. or how they use to be able to just go "hey we've got some ammo, lets hit the range" and that's what they'd do for the day.
we just need to find a way to get the troops re-invigorated in what they do. I knew I wasn't expecting to be on the "go, go go" type of attitude the recruiters made it sound like. get rid of most of the logistic problems we have, and be able to do stuff with a day or two of planning and then head on out and do it, rather than hearing about it for a month and have it change almost daily because of amount of supplies and equipment the troops can use.
I know I was just re-iterating what has been already said by everyone else but I was just mainly agreeing that there definetely needs to be  a boost in training.
Greg
 
Perhaps this belongs more in a recruiting thread, but I thought I would throw it out there given the vast amount of knowledge and experience you guys have. If that is the case....ignore my post and carry on with the discussion, I don't want to disrupt it negatively.

Given all the problems with the way things are done, lack of training time etc....would you still join up, if X number of years ago when you joined, you knew about all this stuff? I've been in the Militia for 5 yrs, but I am really thinking hard about going reg force. I mean, I can deal with a lot of boring days in the platoon room-I actually excel at staring at the wall(that's a joke. well, sort of), but I HOPE the training is of 'higer value'(for lack of a better term).  Something a little different than the same stuff I have been doing over and over for 5 yrs.

It seems to me that there is not much to aspire to be, as was mentioned above, which is a problem I have in my own unit right now. Short of landing in recce Pl, which I would love, there isn't really any variance to the career path. Am I right here?
 
There seem to be alot of good ideas (I wouldn't really know good from bad since I'm only past IAP, but they sound good) here but how much room is there for junior officers to take initiative on things like training/PT? One of the ideas that sounded great was changing up the PT (from my VERY limited experience, the sports PT days always seemed to have higher morale). Could a junior officer change the PT schedule to replace one or two runs with soccer (or some other high-energy sport) or is it strictly regulated?

Secondly, do the officers ever ask the NCO's/NCM's for ideas on PT, training, etc? If not, why not? I can't imagine a leadership position excludes you from accepting input from your men to better their situation (and therefore your own).

Thirdly, instead of sitting around, would it be possible to have lectures/discussions on topics related to the infantry and the military in general? I mean insofar as how strategic level planning filters down to the infantry, theories of why war occurs (IR stuff mostly, I guess), military history, etc. It may be a really stupid idea, I dunno, but if there's alot of down-time like some here have indicated, why not fill it with an interesting and relevant activity that costs next to nothing? Or would that conflict with the "only tell the soldiers what they need to know" principle? I'm just thinking that such an activity might improve the average soldier's attitude towards the infantry and its importance/relevance in the grand scheme of things - you know, make the infanteer feel like a part of a bigger picture.

If the attrition rate is as bad in the infantry as it seems to be (from what I've heard here), the responsibility must rest with the officers since they're ultimately the ones responsible for shortcomings. I'm sure the more junior officers are limited in what they can do but there must be alot they CAN do that they're not doing. I'm just wondering how much "alot" is?
 
Just to add a factoid to this discussion I seem to recall reading somewhere (perhaps a parliamentary committee report?) that about 70 per cent of combat arms NCOs do not renew after their first contract is up. Can anyone confirm that? If so there is definitely an issue to be addressed here, mdh
 
Glorified Ape said:
There seem to be alot of good ideas (I wouldn't really know good from bad since I'm only past IAP, but they sound good) here but how much room is there for junior officers to take initiative on things like training/PT? One of the ideas that sounded great was changing up the PT (from my VERY limited experience, the sports PT days always seemed to have higher morale). Could a junior officer change the PT schedule to replace one or two runs with soccer (or some other high-energy sport) or is it strictly regulated?

Secondly, do the officers ever ask the NCO's/NCM's for ideas on PT, training, etc? If not, why not? I can't imagine a leadership position excludes you from accepting input from your men to better their situation (and therefore your own).

Thirdly, instead of sitting around, would it be possible to have lectures/discussions on topics related to the infantry and the military in general? I mean insofar as how strategic level planning filters down to the infantry, theories of why war occurs (IR stuff mostly, I guess), military history, etc. It may be a really stupid idea, I dunno, but if there's alot of down-time like some here have indicated, why not fill it with an interesting and relevant activity that costs next to nothing? Or would that conflict with the "only tell the soldiers what they need to know" principle? I'm just thinking that such an activity might improve the average soldier's attitude towards the infantry and its importance/relevance in the grand scheme of things - you know, make the infanteer feel like a part of a bigger picture.

If the attrition rate is as bad in the infantry as it seems to be (from what I've heard here), the responsibility must rest with the officers since they're ultimately the ones responsible for shortcomings. I'm sure the more junior officers are limited in what they can do but there must be alot they CAN do that they're not doing. I'm just wondering how much "alot" is?

I believe Junior officers (ie. my Pl Cmdr) can change up PT since PT is usually at the Pl level or Coy level, and if it's at the Coy level, 80% of the time it's ran by the OC. Our OC likes to runs - a lot. IMHO, no matter how inventive your PL Cmdr is, he'll still change as to what the OC would like the Coy to do (ie. run). Sometimes the senior leadership runs PT classes even for the entire Coy. My Sec Cmdr likes to run a VERY nasty pool PT period (in which the OC even notes how strenuous it is) but I'd welcome one of those in place of the week's 4th run anyday.

As for the lectures, I'll say that is one of the best ideas I've ever heard an officer ever initiate (no offense intended). As far as I am concerned, if it's an activity other than cleaning it's already cool. However, you have to make the lesson actually interesting and intended to spike the intellectual minds in the Pl (and there are a lot more in a Pl than most people expect). Occasionally we get some great lectures on 'How to pack a rucksack' which would be good if it wasn't the 3rd one for the year and didn't go against the fact that everyone has their own way to pack their ruck for what they need to carry. I'll use the example of my BIQ course. We had to do basic PPCLI history, now the course plan req'd us to do certain things, but our course officer I think was very passionate about the history and he would not waste time with 'filler facts' but rather tell us some other facts about the various battles as in the exact circumstances the VC was given out for what acts. Our tour of the museum near graduation took a little longer because the tour guide was from the battle of Kapyong and told us how it was to be there.

You state that the junior officers are ultimately in charge of things. I see the ones just getting posted to battallion to be very energetic and gung ho. After a while at battallion (as with us all) they grow accustomed to nights off with their girlfriends or wives. Suddenly, I see the few hours spent on a PP presentation for the lecture at the end of the week suddenly be pushed aside for personal ventures. I don't blame them, it is after work hours or whatnot. Just it takes time and effort to do extra things and some people don't want to give up their extras.

My rubles
-Spooks
 
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