• Thanks for stopping by. Logging in to a registered account will remove all generic ads. Please reach out with any questions or concerns.

Retired general claims $72K in moving expenses (CTV)

E.R. Campbell said:
The view from David Parkins in the Globe and Mail:

web-friedcar21col1.jpg

Reproduced under the Fair Dealing provisions of the Copyright Act from the Globe and Mail
Source:
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/incoming/article17008363.ece/BINARY/w620/web-friedcar21col1.jpg

Thank you Mr Campbell. That's exactly what I have been saying. The military (here) is going round and round about the policy and entitlements.

Those outside the military neither understand or care about that.

They are concerned that a General spent $72,000.00 to move 6.5 blocks and used taxpayer money to physically position himself in a riding that would be favourable to his new civilian occupation as a politician.

I gather not many of the folks here will vote liberal anyway, so it is really those (befuddled civilians) outside the CAF, that count in this.

And they don't like what they see. Whether the understand the reason(s) or not.
 
A quick amendment: from what I know of the electoral map in Ottawa, there was no change of riding.
 
dapaterson said:
A quick amendment: from what I know of the electoral map in Ottawa, there was no change of riding.

Still won't stop the accusation or the theory that there was.  One does not have to live in a riding to run in it.
 
YZT580 said:
The move and the expense claims go hand in hand.  If he has been scrupulously clean in his personal expense claims then he has more than likely just taken the move because it was the final gesture from his employer.  If his expense claims are padded ... then it is likely he was just after his entitlements and that is morally reprehensible.  ...

If we speculate enough on speculative claims I'm sure we can find moral reprehension or just a lot of nothing about nothing.  Quite frankly, I've moved enough to know a free move would not be worth the hassle unless my wife really wanted a different house. 
 
recceguy said:
Thank you Mr Campbell. That's exactly what I have been saying. The military (here) is going round and round about the policy and entitlements.

Those outside the military neither understand or care about that.

They are concerned that a General spent $72,000.00 to move 6.5 blocks and used taxpayer money to physically position himself in a riding that would be favourable to his new civilian occupation as a politician.

Wrong again.  The move kept him in Rockliffe, and he will run oi Orleans.  As I understand it, he qualifies to run in Orleans because he owns property there.  There is no smoking gun here,  LGen Leslie, just like Cpl Snuffy, used his IPR to select his place of retirement - much like, I imagine, you did.
 
YZT580 said:
There are people in the civil service who retire with 200 days accumulated sick leave and there are those who retire with 2.  The one took his entitlements whilst the other was honest about his called-in sick days.  Generally people call the one with 200 a fool.  Rather the one with only 2 is morally bankrupt.  That is the primary issue here.  If you are of any rank and have moved into inferior housing just because of the risk of the next move, by all means take that offered incentive but I doubt that Leslie's former residence was inferior in any way: just not in the right riding.  That is bad taste and  demonstrates his contempt for the folks who paid for his unnecessary real estate fees.  But I am prepared to be wrong. If the General will produce a sampling of his expense claims over the last say 5 years and they are all totally legit.  I will gladly apologize for implying that he ever took the system and my wallet for a ride.  Hypothetical I know :2c: :2c:

31246562.jpg



You're taking me for a ride by forcing me to sift through the nonsense your spewing out.  Don't try and write cheques your ass can't cash!
 
Andrew Leslie talks about his moving costs with Maclean’s here: http://www2.macleans.ca/2014/02/22/exclusive-qa-andrew-leslie-talks-about-his-moving-costs-his-political-career-and-the-attacks-to-come/

I’d say he offers a fairly good defence of why soldiers deserve this benefit after a full career.  No arguments that we have not already seen here, but some new information on the specifics of his situation.

 
PPCLI Guy said:
Wrong again.  The move kept him in Rockliffe, and he will run oi Orleans.  As I understand it, he qualifies to run in Orleans because he owns property there.  There is no smoking gun here,  LGen Leslie, just like Cpl Snuffy, used his IPR to select his place of retirement - much like, I imagine, you did.

I simply stated what I heard on a news program.

Nowhere did I say what he did was wrong. Nowhere did I say the policy was wrong. Nowhere did I say he wasn't entitled to it.

However, my point still remains, whatever the legalities and policies of his move were, it will still leave a bad taste in the mouths of civilians that don't understand the program.

I also predict that this will not be that last we hear of it. This is the stuff political hay is made from and it will follow him for a long time.

BTW, just for shiggles, as you brought it up, the cost to move my family from Trenton, across the province to my retirement cost the government less than $5,000.
 
recceguy said:
BTW, just for shiggles, as you brought it up, the cost to move my family from Trenton, across the province to my retirement cost the government less than $5,000.

Horse and buggies were a lot cheaper than the moving trucks we use today.........
 
Bruce Monkhouse said:
Horse and buggies were a lot cheaper than the moving trucks we use today.........

I did see someone try to claim reimbursement for Pet Shipment one time.........for a horse.      :facepalm:
 
recceguy said:
BTW, just for shiggles, as you brought it up, the cost to move my family from Trenton, across the province to my retirement cost the government less than $5,000.

I'm going to guess you were in a Q, and didn't sell a home.  I just did my retirement move (distance 35 km) last year, and it cost at least $25,500 - 3/5 of which was real estate commission.
 
DAA said:
I did see someone try to claim reimbursement for Pet Shipment one time.........for a horse.      :facepalm:

It's not as uncommon as you might think.  Unfortunately not covered.  Hint:  If you own livestock, own a trailer that is attached to the vehicle you are driving to your next location. 
 
Occam said:
I'm going to guess you were in a Q, and didn't sell a home.  I just did my retirement move (distance 35 km) last year, and it cost at least $25,500 - 3/5 of which was real estate commission.

Someone call the media!!!
 
Crantor said:
Someone call the media!!!

I know!  I've been waiting for the knock on the door.  My name's gonna turn up on a ATI request sooner or later.  Of course, I wasn't a General...with a million dollar home...and a potential candidate for an opposition party (though I'm damn tempted to take a run at a resurrected Rhinoceros party).
 
Occam said:
I know!  I've been waiting for the knock on the door.  My name's gonna turn up on a ATI request sooner or later.  Of course, I wasn't a General...with a million dollar home...and a potential candidate for an opposition party (though I'm damn tempted to take a run at a resurrected Rhinoceros party).

You leave the Rockies alone. I don't care about an ocean view from Edmonton.
 
And now the usual anticipated reactions by our elected Members of Parliament to current CAF policies are likely to be forthcoming, due to public outrage to perceived abuse to use of benefits what they are totally ignorant about:


LINK

Reproduced under the Fair Dealings provisions of the Copyright Act.
The Hill Times

CF rank and file retirement benefits threatened

 with attention from Leslie furor: Blais

By MICHAEL BLAIS |
Published: Friday, 02/28/2014 6:19 pm EST
Last Updated: Friday, 02/28/2014 8:02 pm EST

NIAGARA FALLS, ONT.—The artificially created furor over Andrew Leslie’s military retirement benefits has borne the expected results. Political pundits took to social media, radio, newspapers, and television for several days to discuss the seemingly outrageous sum that the former general claimed for housing and move-related expenses as a component of the Canadian Forces retirement benefit.

Benefit, not entitlement.

Disinformation, perhaps willfully applied in the guise of political expedience, stoked the flames of discord. Defence Minister Rob Nicholson chimed in on cue, disparaging Leslie’s judgment despite the fact that this seemingly terrible act occurred under his watch. Esteemed Ottawa barrister Michel Drapeau, for whom I bear a great deal of respect, expressed disappointment due to proximity issues inherent with Leslie's move. His position was buoyed by a CBC exposé dramatically revealing that several admirals and Army/Air Force generals also availed themselves of this program when they decided to retire in the community of their last assignment. Most recently, Conservative MP Cheryl Gallant, who shocked the veterans' community at CFB Petawawa with her inconsiderate comments on mental health stigma, embraced this position and has announced publicly that she will be studying “relocation” costs incurred through the CF retirement benefit.

Retired colonel Pat Stogran, Canada’s first veterans ombudsman, was perhaps the most outspoken critic. Joining the fray on CBC Power and Politics, he derided Leslie as self-serving and claimed that he did not take advantage of his retirement benefit as he felt there was, due to ongoing public service, a conflict of interest when he assumed his role as Canada’s first veterans ombudsman. There is no conflict of interest. Military service is unique; the retirement benefits inherent with a willingness to sacrifice one’s life on behalf of the nation over a 20-year service span reflect this most sacred obligation. Whether you choose to retire or, as I would encourage younger veterans such as Leslie, to continue to serve the nation’s interests through public service, is irrelevant to the program criteria.

Perspective is required. First, this not some dreaded liberal entitlement with all the dreaded connotations inferred by those who would attempt to make the issue political shortly before Leslie was to speak before the Liberal biennial convention. Leslie is, of course, an exception; a vast majority of CF retirement benefit recipients have not incurred such a wonderful equity return on their investments. Real estate fees, the primary component of the program, on a million-dollar-plus home are not insignificant; at the very least, close to $60,000 of the $72,000 in question was applied to this expense. Add to this the legal costs associated with selling and buying a home, moving expenses and the $72,000 is clearly justified under the programs criteria. 



Leslie is an exception. Most CF personnel are not posted to a prime real estate area like Ottawa; there is no market-inflated increase in equity. Some, such as major Marcus Brauer, have suffered catastrophic consequences when the military communities, that DND encouraged them to purchase equity-building homes in, were subsequently ravaged by deficit reduction downsizing or base closures and the market collapsed. The rank and file, by pay-scale definition, does not have the financial resources to purchase accommodations equitable to the same level of comfort as would be expected of a general. They are also subject to four-year posting cycles common to military service that necessitates relocation before accruing much equity. Leslie was fortunate. He maintained his residence in Ottawa for an extended period of time and the equity the property accrued was indeed significant.

DND implemented the program in the 1990s to encourage CF members to purchase homes during their careers to establish financial equity to supplement their pensions upon retirement. This program has borne significant benefits to the affected communities and DND equity assurance policies undoubtedly stimulated and sustained economic growth in isolated areas—like CFB Petawawa, Gallant—wherein the base provides the sole or primary employment infrastructure. Where bases still exist, CF members often choose to retire there due to preference, post-military employment opportunities and/or the fact that their spouses, understanding retirement is imminent, availed themselves of local employment opportunities that transcend the standard posting period. 



To deny the rank, file, and their families these retirement benefits by using Leslie, the exception, as an example to eliminate the CF retirement benefit program or imposing criteria inclusive of mandatory range exclusions, is disingenuous. Significant financial hardship will be imparted upon the retiring CF member as these costs, real estate, legal fees, moving expenses, will surely negate most if not all equity accrued through the DND sponsored program.

Leslie, exception he may be, fulfilled the program’s longstanding criteria for eligibility. Questions about his judgment are clearly unfounded, politically motivated and, considering Gallant’s response, perhaps indicative of a more insidious budget deficit scheme to deny Canadian Forces members the retirement benefits they have earned.

I would suggest now is the time for the Harper government, with respect, not derision, to honour its obligation to Leslie and to all CF members who have fulfilled their obligation to this nation and qualify for CF retirement benefits, wherever they choose to retire. Canada’s sons and daughters have, through great sacrifice and honour, earned the right of choice.

Michael L. Blais, CD, is founder and president of the Canadian Veterans Advocacy and is based in Niagara Falls, Ont.

So.  We will likely see a knee-jerk reaction by TB and the Government to amend current policies that may have adverse affects on ALL CAF members in the future.
 
The artificially created furor over Andrew Leslie’s military retirement benefits has borne the expected results. Political pundits took to social media, radio, newspapers, and television for several days to discuss the seemingly outrageous sum that the former general claimed for housing and move-related expenses as a component of the Canadian Forces retirement benefit.

A furor created by CTV and nourished by the rest of the MSM; just so we remember the start of all of this. Not that the politicians on all sides are blameless for stoking the fire. The public outcry is borne not solely of ignorance, but in only small measure, envy as well. The appearance that a millionaire General got something they never will is a force multiplier in the debate. When the story broke, that was the exact sentiment expressed at work. Not the political dimension, but the appearance of a benefit for the rich Generals at the public's expense.

George Wallace said:
So.  We will likely see a knee-jerk reaction by TB and the Government to amend current policies that may have adverse affects on ALL CAF members in the future.

Law of unintended consequences indeed.
 
BOHICA.



Original link

DND to stop compensating same-city moves for retiring military

By Laura Stone and Jacques Bourbeau  Global News

OTTAWA – The federal government will no longer reimburse retiring Canadian Forces members’ same-city moves following a Global News series exposing the tab for several moves at hundreds of thousands of dollars.

National Defence intends to announce a new policy that no longer pays military members for same-city moves when they retire, with exceptions for sick or disabled military members.

The government also plans to rein in open-ended costs.

“We will fix the system,” Conservative MP Parm Gill, parliamentary secretary for Veterans Affairs, said in an interview.

The decision follows a series of Global News stories that revealed it cost nearly $600,000 to move Generals, many of them retired, within the same city or just outside the city limits over the past five years.

The priciest move was that of Lt. Gen. (Ret.) Andrew Leslie, now an advisor to Liberal Leader Justin Trudeau and who is hoping to run for the Liberals in the riding of Ottawa-Orleans. Leslie received $72,000 to move from one house in the upscale Ottawa neighbourhood of Rockcliffe to another just 2.5 kilometres away.

Included in that tab was $7.70 in mileage and $271.22 in per diems for the move.

Leslie did not file for those two payments; they were given to him automatically. But documents show he did sign off to receive them.

“Seventy thousand dollars for a move down the street in the same neighbourhood, I do not believe any Canadian sees that being a good use of taxpayers’ money,” said Gill, who represents the Toronto riding of Brampton-Springdale.

DND’s retirement resettlement policy was designed to allow soldiers, who spend their career being posted around the country and sometimes around the world, to expense one final move when they retire so they can choose where they will live.

In February, Leslie told Global News that he and his family moved 18 times and he bought the first  house in Ottawa on a very short trip without the input of his wife.

“We decided to retire in Ottawa and not move out of the city. My wife found and chose the perfect house … fixed it up and here we are,” he wrote.

Leslie said he knew how much the real estate and legal fees cost, which was the bulk of the bill, but did not know the full cost of his 2013 move.

With files from Rebecca Lindell
 
Back
Top