Riot control

[greydak]

Treb,at one time they used to teach the Reserves but only in relation to Base,Armoury Defence etc.,but I have not seen it taught( in B.C. anyway) for years.

Our Unit tarined with OPP, almost the same as the CCO done in pre-deployment!

 

[Kirkhill]

Another off the wall thought.  An IS/CCO/Riot-Control focus for foot drill.  Keeping in mind that foot drill originated from the need to manoeuvre disciplined formations in the face of unruly rabble and impose their will on the rabble.  Roman Testudo, Scottish Schiltroms, Spanish Tercios, Napoleonic Columns, Thin Red Lines, Parade Square, Riot Squads.... fairly direct line there. 

 

[excoelis]

Myself and (edit) had the opportunity to develop the current CCO package prior to Roto 8 Op Palladium.   The OPP Public Order Unit gave us the trng, LFDTS reps oversaw the trng and later wrote the pam on CCO, and we wrote the military lesson plans.   The system is based on the British model with emphasis on Pressure Point Control Tactics and Defensive Tactics.   Interesting to me because I had previously taken the PPCT courses through Expertech out of Ottawa.   The PPCT package seems to be the way ahead due to it's development on a legally, tactically, and medically defensible system.   It was interesting to learn about crowd dynamic theory, the force continuum, use of force response options and all the other associated LE subjects.   I believe it was definitely a step ahead from the old 'beating the shields' with the Airborne Regt in preparation for deployment to Oka (we never deployed).   Hopefully we don't take one step foreward and two steps back......

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Your PM box is full.If you read this PM me, please.
Thanks, Bruce

 

[Cloud Cover]

We did lots of riot control training as part of the BDF program in the 1980's at Esquimalt as there was genuine fear of protestors rushing the commissionaires at the gates when the 688's started visitng the base. In the middle of drills, we actually got a blast from an RN Captain for not saluting him when he strolled by with his friggin' kid in tow. Raised his voice to the point of a scream when the PPCLI WO in charge of drills walked up, saluted and asked him for identification.  Captain "Kipper" didn't have any ID, ... everybody started laughing, then it was down for fifty ... again.  Better than draggin that F&^%&*& cannon across the square though...

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Gee, no positive ID?  : Obviously impersonating a soldier and should have been taken into custody by said WO. :warstory:

 

[GrimRX]

I think it was '73.  Not only we did we make the papers, we crazed and depraved killers were the subject of discussion on the open-line talk show programs for a solid week.  And I think that put an end to IS training.  Too bad we didn't get a campaign medal for that one. 

Aluminum mess-tins - we are showing our age my friend.

Anyone wanna provide a link to information about that?  I'm kinda curious now, lol.

 

[pbi]

I dont mean to sound too naive or anything, but what was the: Queen's Park Homeless Action riot?

This was a particularly violent riot that took place in Toronto ( June 2000??) on the grounds of the Ontario Legislature Building at Queen's Park, Toronto. Led by Mr John Clarke, a well-known and very confrontational rabble-rouser, the group confronted the OPP and Queen's Park security on the south side of the Legislature. The rioters arrived well-prepared and equipped (they even had their own medics and doctors) and the crowd even included a few "genuine" homeless people. After haranguing and taunting the OPP for about an hour,throwing things, etc. the rioters were eventually dispersed by a series of baton charges including the use of mounted police. During these charges the riotes displayed some of their tactics such as throwing bicycles in front of horses to trip them., attacking horses with nail boards, etc. Of course, the rioters got the TV footage they wanted ("FASCIST POLICE GOONS SAVAGELY BEAT HARMLESS HOMELESS DEMONSTRATORS, ETC ETC...).

Up at LFCAHQ, in the AOC, we watched the event unfold on several TV monitors (to get different channel coverage). Mr Clarke and his buddies wanted trouble and they got it. Overall, IMHO the OPP acquitted themselves well under intense provocation. Cheers.

 

[GrimRX]

I dont mean to sound too naive or anything, but what was the: Queen's Park Homeless Action riot?

This was a particularly violent riot that took place in Toronto ( June 2000??) on the grounds of the Ontario Legislature Building at Queen's Park, Toronto. Led by Mr John Clarke, a well-known and very confrontational rabble-rouser, the group confronted the OPP and Queen's Park security on the south side of the Legislature. The rioters arrived well-prepared and equipped (they even had their own medics and doctors) and the crowd even included a few "genuine" homeless people. After haranguing and taunting the OPP for about an hour,throwing things, etc. the rioters were eventually dispersed by a series of baton charges including the use of mounted police. During these charges the riotes displayed some of their tactics such as throwing bicycles in front of horses to trip them., attacking horses with nail boards, etc. Of course, the rioters got the TV footage they wanted ("FASCIST POLICE GOONS SAVAGELY BEAT HARMLESS HOMELESS DEMONSTRATORS, ETC ETC...).

Up at LFCAHQ, in the AOC, we watched the event unfold on several TV monitors (to get different channel coverage). Mr Clarke and his buddies wanted trouble and they got it. Overall, IMHO the OPP acquitted themselves well under intense provocation. Cheers.

Funny, most news I can find is from the OTHER side, lol.

 

[pbi]

Funny, most news I can find is from the OTHER side, lol.

Which is of course exactly the way Mr Clarke and his friends prefer it. Cheers.

 

[Danjanou]

Clarke and his goons er excuse me associates are fast becoming experts at this sort of thing, including media manipulation (not hard to do in Toronto mind). This weekend OCAP they stormned the old Police HQ Bldg at 590 Jarvis and tried to turn it into a squat. They knew full what the response would  be when they chose it and ended up with more footage of them being "attacked" by cops. That should be good for a few recruits and a few donations to their war chest.

I'm nervously awaiting they're latest overt actions as they've been a little too quiet of late (aside from some non public little stunts of sabotage).

 

[The_Falcon]

Actually the police at the Queens Park riot were members of the Toronto Police Service.  After the OPSEU Strike in 1995, the OPP were accused of using excess force, after beating a number of strikers at Queens Park.  After that incident the Ontario Government said the OPP could no longer provide the riot control duties at the Legislature Building.

 

[pbi]

Hatchet Man: Right you are. It was the TPS Public Order Unit not the OPP, for the reason you gave. I stand corrected. Cheers.

 

[Slim]

  After that incident the Ontario Government said the OPP could no longer provide the riot control duties at the Legislature Building.

That, too, plays into those a$$hole's hands.

They have professional media people on staff. I have worked against them in the past. Believe me it doesn't take much to turn an event with the police into a media victory for them. Remember they only have to fool the people that want to believe it anyway and maybe a few fence sitters.

After all the media ALWAYS tell the truth, right?! :

Slim

 

[pbi]

After that incident the Ontario Government said the OPP could no longer provide the riot control duties at the Legislature Building.

That, too, plays into those a$$hole's hands.

They have professional media people on staff. I have worked against them in the past. Believe me it doesn't take much to turn an event with the police into a media victory for them. Remember they only have to fool the people that want to believe it anyway and maybe a few fence sitters.

After all the media ALWAYS tell the truth, right?! :

Slim

Slim: IIRC (and I realize my credibility in this area is a bit low at the moment.....) the decision was based on a separate inquiry into what happened, not completely on the media frenzy. I believe there actually was some evidence that OPP unit was either not well trained or was not properly controlled during the earlier confrontation. Cheers.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Slim and PBI,
Some of the CO's from my old jail were there that dat and[second-hand of course] I would have to venture the OPP squad werre both under-trained and overboard that day. Some of these people who refered this story to me are/were ICIT members and trained in crowd control and the consencous was that if we had done the exact same thing on one of our deployments against inmates, we would have been down the road kickin' stones. Some of these personal are still a little bitter.
ARTICLE,
Then on March 18 the Tories called out the Ontario Public Provincial Police riot squad, replete with Star Wars helmets, menacing shields and batons. The OPP proceeded to pummel OPSEU members and allies blocking Tory ministers seeking access to the Legislature and nearby Queen's Park buildings. Repeated TV broadcast of the police violence proved to be a strike turning point.

 

[SeanNewman]

What happened in Oka was not a CCO; it was soldiers with rifles pointed at people.

To be effective at confronting a crowd, you NEED at bare minimum shileds, batons, CS gas, and BIMs (blunt impact munitions).  Extra good kit are visors, shin and gauntlet pads, fire extinquishers, distraction devices, concertina wire, etc.

As a recent grad of the CCOI course, I can give you a basic outline, without going into any tactics or formations that may be used against us (sensitive information and all).

Think of a C7/C9 opening fire as a golf 1 Wood, and a UN non-armed observer as a putter.  Then think of CCO like a wedge iron, that you use for distances in between driving and putting.  If a ball is trapped in the sand, you can technically get it out by using a driver or putter, but they're far from the ideal tool for the job.

If you're a wall of UN troops, you're going to sit there and get rolled over when the crowd comes in.  Likewise, when you only have conventional weapons and no CCO kit, all you have is verbal warnings, physical strikes, and then lethal force shooting.

CCO capability gives you STAND OFF distance from the crowd, which is safest for everyone.  Nobody wants to breath CS or get a 12ga bean bag in the stomach, so they stay back.  When it gets to the point of baton and shield strikes, the crowd is too close, because then they can start snatching you into their crowd (very bad).

That's why Oka wasn't a CCO.  They lacked that crucial tool in between telling someone to get back, and shooting them.

Any general Qs can be directed to my e-mail.  As per above, I will not answer anything about tactics, formations, or other sensitive info.

 

[SeanNewman]

One other point:

The term "riot" is only the most extreme of four stages of group behaviour.

There are different definitions of the terms "assembly", "gathering", "crowd", and "riot" all have different degrees of intensity and/or legal/illegal intent. 

 

[Spr.Earl]

One other point:

The term "riot" is only the most extreme of four stages of group behaviour.

There are different definitions of the terms "assembly", "gathering", "crowd", and "riot" all have different degrees of intensity and/or legal/illegal intent. 

I remember when we were trained in Base Defence and had one Ex. a year when we used batton's,shield's etc. against a civie enemy.

I even played enemy for CFOCS against Officer Cadets who were the riot control,yup those battons hurt.