RMC Class of 2010

[FredDaHead]

I am positive if you take the problem of no ruck to the RSM he will find you one knowing him.

Do you think I'm insane enough to just walk up to MWO XXXXXXX and go "Hey, Sargeant-Major, can you help me get a ruck off supply?"

He'd probably say something like "oh, you wanna do more ruck marches? Let's go for it, every morning at 0530!"

 

[DVessey]

You wanted to be officers, this how they're made. Ya'll are whining like pregnant women.

And then here's the old attitude. "You're all just wining. suck it up". So pointing out deficiencies in the system is whining and I should just suck it up? Sure, I'll remember that for later on in my career  :

Alright, fine, let's do some 'soldier first' stuff during the school year at RMC, but why not realistic? During our range weekend, we do it a division at a time. that's 3-4 squadrons of ~100 people each. That gives each person a chance to shoot old brownings and C7s once. We do that once per school year. We don't even have a shooting or biathlon team anymore(obviously not very good military sports...).

There's this general feeling in the the senior ranks here at RMC and from what I've seen on this board, everywhere in the CF, that if you're an OCdt, you don't know shit, and can't criticize anything. Well guess what, we're the ones 'on the ground' here at the college, living the dream.
I went to Alert for an OJE this summer, and had a lot of fun, met a lot of great people, from all different trades, from the van doo para General Duty kitchen staff to the CELE CO. You know what all the NCMs told me when we got to talking about RMC and advice for the future? look after and listen to your troops, from your privates to your senior cpls to your sgts (WO is taken as a given).

Let's take a hypothetical example here(don't want to use specific examples just in case big brother is watching): What would any of you say if a battalion were formed up for parade practice at about 5:50, and then the RSM had a O-group with the platoon WOs for about 20 minutes, all while rest of the battalion is left standing in the parade square? Needless to say, there's other work that the troops could be working on.


Then again, what do I know? I'm just a whiny Ocdt...

 

[Infanteer]

Ruckmarches aren't about physical conditioning, it's about mental conditioning.  I've seen fit guys fall out of ruckmarches because they mentally switch off.

...and to the kids whining about lack of sleep at school.  What the hell to you think military leadership is all about?  Making decisions under stressful conditions while fatigued.  Most boneheads can succeed with 8 hours and 3 sqaures but it's the real leaders who can step up to the plate with no sleep and little food to motivate and lead their subordinates.

Alright, fine, let's do some 'soldier first' stuff during the school year at RMC, but why not realistic? During our range weekend, we do it a division at a time. that's 3-4 squadrons of ~100 people each. That gives each person a chance to shoot old brownings and C7s once. We do that once per school year. We don't even have a shooting or biathlon team anymore(obviously not very good military sports...).

Welcome to the CF.

Let's take a hypothetical example here(don't want to use specific examples just in case big brother is watching): What would any of you say if a battalion were formed up for parade practice at about 5:50, and then the RSM had a O-group with the platoon WOs for about 20 minutes, all while rest of the battalion is left standing in the parade square? Needless to say, there's other work that the troops could be working on.

As per.  You think this is something unique to RMC?

Then again, what do I know? I'm just a whiny Ocdt...

I don't know - you tell me.

 

[paracowboy]

What would any of you say if a battalion were formed up for parade practice at about 5:50, and then the RSM had a O-group with the platoon WOs for about 20 minutes, all while rest of the battalion is left standing in the parade square?

I'd say "Must be Tuesday".

As for the rest of your rant: yeah, you're an OCdt, you DON'T know anything about the CF yet, and nobody listens to 1st year Privates whine, either. 'Cause they're in the same position you are: they don't know anything yet.

 

[spoon man]

Then why don't the Civy U guys do it?  Aren't they going to be officers too? 

And I tend to think it's the way you form ARMY (or even combat arms?) officers. 

Max

Suck it up buttercup.

There are people who are doing engineering degrees at civi u, working in the reserves, doing private flight training and still find time to do extra curriculars while seriosuly hitting the gym.

 

[SupersonicMax]

...and to the kids whining about lack of sleep at school.  What the hell to you think military leadership is all about?  Making decisions under stressful conditions while fatigued.  Most boneheads can succeed with 8 hours and 3 sqaures but it's the real leaders who can step up to the plate with no sleep and little food to motivate and lead their subordinates.

I don't mind doing that for a few weeks... But for 4 months at the time?  That's a bit too much...  I can do 2-3 hrs a night for a few days but I'll need rest sometimes... Don't tell me the week end... That's still work...

Max

 

[Meridian]

Dvessey

You still aren't getting it.

I may only be paid for a 9-5 job, but my job quite often extends much more outside of the 9-5. Often I have to do things that have nothing to do with what I am trained for and really paid to do, but, you know what, its all part of the job. Ive learned to deal with it.  Getting up at 5 am to do a ruck, and then managing to stay awake all day AND get good grades will help you do that.

The point isnt so much that you need to do something ARMY as that you need to do something that seems daunting, that is not EASY and that will push you to work harder.

You are NOT at a civvy U.  There is a reason the Forces used to push for attendance at RMC over Civy U. Civvy U students can become well-rounded officers, there is no doubt.  But what you should be proud of when you leave RMC is the fact that you did MORE than just get an engineering degree..  ENG degrees are hard everywhere.  Guess what. Arts degrees can be too,. especially for those who would like to get into a Grad school later. 

You do not go to school on a ship.  Nor do you study intermediate quantum physics in a helo or in the back of a Herc.  I'm sure you could, but unfortunately thats not nearly cost effective NOR is it really all that demanding on you.


That said, I'm sure if you could decide to be a leader, and take your criticisms and turn them into solutions, you might get more favourable responses.  How about you come up with a cost effective activity that would meet the same training goals as are met by early morning ruck marches.  (Fitness, discipline, self-motivation, mental endurance, etc). Something you can do that would apply more to your element.



It's easy to point out problems.
It's an entirely different matter to come up with viable solutions.

The sooner you get that, the better a leader you will be.

 

[Infanteer]

I don't mind doing that for a few weeks... But for 4 months at the time?

Tell that to the guys in the Forward Operating Bases in Afghanistan.... :

 

[DVessey]

As for the rest of your rant: yeah, you're an OCdt, you DON'T know anything about the CF yet, and nobody listens to 1st year Privates whine, either. 'Cause they're in the same position you are: they don't know anything yet.

4th year ROTP and a lot of the UT OCdts are saying the same things. 

 

[SupersonicMax]

Suck it up buttercup.

There are people who are doing engineering degrees at civi u, working in the reserves, doing private flight training and still find time to do extra curriculars while seriosuly hitting the gym.

I did extra curriculars during my time at RMC as well.  Don't forget that we don't have a 25 hrs engineering schedule... we have 35+ hrs a week of classes (we have to take arts and of course gym classes)  That is totally fine with me.  We had IMs/Varsity (2X a week for IMs and every day for varsity).  I did a lots of flight training to keep my competency on "how to fly an aircraft" current, volunteered in some places in town, hit the gym/run 4-5 times a week and I had a spouse (civi) and a house to maintain.  All that no time really pissed my wife off but fortunately we both fly airplanes so we could fly together... which was our only together time...  I didn't see how the 6h00 LSD run will help me in becoming a better officer...

Tell that to the guys in the Forward Operating Bases in Afghanistan.... :

I'm pretty sure they get some time off at some point.  

Max

 

[SupersonicMax]

You don't get any time off at an FOB.  You never know when the shyte will hit the fan. Excuse me Mr Taliban, but I've had a really tough day, can we make this battle a little later.

Maybe they don't then, but I don't think the ruck march at 0600 will prevent people from dying.  Lives depend on their job. 

P.S. : Don't deployed people have some kind of leave after 3 months?  Anyways, this is the way it was working a few years back isn't it?

Max

 

[SupersonicMax]

Nope not at all.  All that I know is that this bullcrap made me hate that place with a passion.

Max

 

[DVessey]

That said, I'm sure if you could decide to be a leader, and take your criticisms and turn them into solutions, you might get more favourable responses.  How about you come up with a cost effective activity that would meet the same training goals as are met by early morning ruck marches.  (Fitness, discipline, self-motivation, mental endurance, etc). Something you can do that would apply more to your element.

Set standards and let us meet them (ie/ RMC PT Test, which already exists) on our own time. Let us actually manage our own schedule.

 

[Gunner]

To quote someone much brighter than me "Officer Cadets should be seen, not heard".

 

[aesop081]

Nope not at all.  All that I know is that this bullcrap made me hate that place with a passion.

Max

then leave....as soon as you can.....preferably before you set foot in the same airplane as me.......

 

[aesop081]

Set standards and let us meet them (ie/ RMC PT Test, which already exists) on our own time. Let us actually manage our own schedule.

looks to me like you are doing a piss-poor job at managing it now.

 

[paracowboy]

I had a big ol' multi-point post all worked out, then realized you guys don't want to face reality, you want to feel sorry for yourselves. Fine. You're right. The CF has no idea how to teach people to be Leaders, and it's all a plot to make your lives difficult. You have it harder than anyone in the history of the CF. :

I'm out.

 

[SupersonicMax]

then leave....as soon as you can.....preferably before you set foot in the same airplane as me.......

This place referring as RMC not the military.. As I said earlier, I love where I am now and where I,m headed.

Max

 

[aesop081]

This place referring as RMC not the military.. As I said earlier, I love where I am now and where I,m headed.

Max

I think you missunderstood me.........leave before  you wind up in my airplane.

 

[Shamrock]

Max.

Go on a tour as a rifleman.  Tell me then how hard RMC is.  Then a year later, go on another one.

And for added fun: while you're there, do some classes.  Because some of those infantarymen will do just that.