Romeo Dallaire

[Art Johnson]

Right off I'll state that I am not a fan of General Dallaire Some questions:

1- According to news reports at the time Gen. Dallaire actually witnessed the execution of some Belgian Soldiers. Why did he not just charge right in there instead of taking off in the other direction?

2- Why did Gen. Dallaire not testify at the Belgian Government's inquiry into the murder of the Belgian Soldiers?

As Michael alludes there seems to be a lot of propaganda being slung about. I guess we have run up against the Teflon Regiment again

 

[aesop081]

Right off I'll state that I am not a fan of General Dallaire Some questions:

1- According to news reports at the time Gen. Dallaire actually witnessed the execution of some Belgian Soldiers. Why did he not just charge right in there instead of taking off in the other direction?

2- Why did Gen. Dallaire not testify at the Belgian Government's inquiry into the murder of the Belgian Soldiers?

As Michael alludes there seems to be a lot of propaganda being slung about. I guess we have run up against the Teflon Regiment again

There is alot of propaganda being thrown around which is why i read from many different soursces to make my opinion on matters.

Further more........Gen Dallaire was an artilleryman, thus not from the "teflon regiment".   Having grown up around that regiment ( my father was a R22R), i can say this : Take you comments and shove 'em where the sun don't shine !

EDIT : my apologies in advance to the mods but it needed to be said...i don't go around insulting english regiments

 

[Edward Campbell]

I have to state my prejudices here: I have known Romeo Dallaire for the better part of 25 years and I like him.   We are not, never were, friends but we were a bit more than just acquaintances or colleagues.   We spent a few afternoons solving the problems of the world before he was promoted.

It is my belief that he was hung out to dry in Rwanda: by a bunch of halfwits in New York (led by then MGen Maurice Baril) and by a bunch of chowder-heads in Ottawa: in DND, in Foreign Affairs, in the Privy Council Office and in Parliament.

That being said: Romeo was a poor choice for the assigned job.   No one in the CF understood much about Rwanda or Central Africa at all, for that matter.   Romeo was a brand new, quite inexperienced general - especially vis à vis Africa and the UN (both equally dark and steamy places); he was, on the other hand, native French speaking - this was supposed to give him some special insights, I guess, and he was available, essentially unemployed at the moment and Canada really wanted an overseas, high profile command job to make up for the fact that we had just been passed by Fiji, I think it was, on the "most active peacekeeping nationsâ ? roster.

When he was 'over there' he made some fundamentally flawed decisions, as (to his credit) he never tires of pointing out - both in what he did and in what he failed to do.  

What I find shocking is that the powers that be not only did not cashier Mauruce Baril for being an incompetent nincompoop and a moral coward, they brought him home and promoted him, twice, after it was clear to everyone who had ever met him that he had 'peaked' at about colonel.

What happened to Romeo Dallaire shouldn't have happened to Idi Amin's dog but he must, as he does, in public, bear some of the responsibility.

Now poor old Romeo is being touted for GG.   He needs, and deserves, a rest ... some privacy, some 'space' and so on.   Romeo might not have been our best ever general, perhaps he was, only, a fair to middling general; he was one who was, with his own connivance, put it way over his head and then hung out to dry ... then the folks in Fantasyland sur Rideau discovered that they could ride "upâ ? on Romeo's tormented coattails as he crashed and burned in public and then, slowly, painfully, publicly recovered his dignity and pride.

Romeo has some important stories to tell; we, soldiers and civilians alike would do well to listen.   There are also lessons to be learned from his experiences, lessons which are not in his book and lectures.

 

[Ghost]

To me you sound american, would i be correct

No actually I am a Canadian and I recently got a job offer for the artillery in the Canadian Forces.

Atleast the army does not think I am a worthless human being

 

[Michael Dorosh]

No actually I am a Canadian and I recently got a job offer for the artillery in the Canadian Forces.

Atleast the army does not think I am a worthless human being

Well, not yet.  Wait til the second week of basic.

**and yes, I'm kidding you...**

 

[aesop081]

No actually I am a Canadian and I recently got a job offer for the artillery in the Canadian Forces.

Atleast the army does not think I am a worthless human being

New guy, hey ?


Good luck in the artillery....lets hope you never have to face a genocide and be in charge !

 

[Ghost]

I turned the offer down though.

I am still waiting for a spot in the infantry.

 

[camochick]

I guess my big question is, if any of us were in the same position knowing what he knew and having the resources he did, would we have done different. It's easy to look back now and say , well  i wouldnt have done that, but it's ten years after the fact. I agree he shouldnt be sainted or anything, but he has admitted to his mistakes and obviously pays for them internally everyday. He is doing what he can to give back for what he felt he did wrong so I think that is honorable.

 

[aesop081]

I turned the offer down though.

I am still waiting for a spot in the infantry.

mmmmmmm.ah yes, much better......

then you can realy be faced with human suffering........make sure you picked a side though....

 

[043]

Never judge a man until you have spent a day in his shoes!

Why are we as humans so fricking quick to judge!!!!!!!!!! Remember that this tour was a UN, I say again, UN, operation!!!!!!!!! For those you us, who know, that should say it all!!!!!!!!!

He has opened to door for the entire CF by admitting to and speaking out about PTSD. In this case, we have learned from the lessons, not noted the lessens learned!!!!!!!!

 

[Ghost]

mmmmmmm.ah yes, much better......

then you can realy be faced with human suffering........make sure you picked a side though....

Would you be happier if I didn't join the Canadian Forces at all?

 

[aesop081]

Quite simply.....YES !

Just kidding of course

You should get quite an education in the infantry and IMHO you have made a good career choice.  But simply put , i some of the areas where you will serve, you will required a more open mind than that which you have demonstrated here.

But at any rate, good luck in the CF

 

[Armymedic]

Whether you like him or not, Gen Dallaire has been an eyewitness to the most horrific events recorded by color television.

If nothing else, you have to respect his determination to get the lessons out to everyone, and not allowing the general populations of western (white) countries to forget about something we as Human Beings should ever forget, or allow to happen again.

If it were not for him the 10th anniversary of the genocide would have been forgotten by all of us. Notice all the media coverage in Apr about it?....

no, nor did I.

 

[Danjanou]

Rusty Old Joint

Your thoughts on General Dallaire are exactly what I was thinking as I was reading his book. A decent and honourable man but perhaps a bit too altruistic and naive especially in regards to the Machiavellian world of the UN.

A look at the ribbons on his uniform, shows he never did a tour before that so one can presume he had no idea of the how the UN operated, unlike his scheming civilian superior on the mission a career bumbling bureaucrat who seemed well versed in covering his fifth point of contact.

Would another more experienced commander say MacKenzie who knew full well how the UN worked, or rather didn't, and how to deal with their shortcomings have done better? I doubt it, this mission was doomed to failure  from Day 1.

All in all a powerful film and I glad I was it.

Much as I would like to see him as GG to perhaps restore some integrity to that position, the man needs and well deserves a rest.

 

[Art Johnson]

No one has answed my questions yet. From what I have been told Gen  Dallaire is a very fine human being and a wonderfull speaker. What we need are officers of ACTION on our foreign assignments. The last I heared was that Gen Dallaire has received at least $35000.00 from the Federal Government for what ever.

 

[pbi]

What I find shocking is that the powers that be not only did not cashier Mauruce Baril for being an incompetent nincompoop and a moral coward, they brought him home and promoted him, twice, after it was clear to everyone who had ever met him that he had 'peaked' at about colonel

Amen to that. Equalled only by Boyle (who was sacked) and De Chastelain, an equally "grey man" who IMHO could talk for 40 minutes and say absolutely nothing.

Part of the problem was, I think, that we raised an entire generation of General officers who had little or no real operational experience and whose abilities probably topped out at platoon commander (I don't specifically include MGen Dallaire in this, as I personally think more of him than that..). Remember the Army that they grew up in: except for Cyprus (which degenerated into a Club Med after 74/75) there was no real "overseas operation" that provided experience to large numbers of officers and soldiers (I exclude Germany from this-it was not exactly an "operation" in hte way I am thinking). More importantly, very, very few of these guys ever heard shots fired in anger or experienced real war in any way. Sadly, a number of them (no names....) were dimwits, plain and simple. I know: I served under and around a few of them. Contrast that to today, where we have IMHO a far better, more intelligent and much more experienced class of General Officers now arriving on the scene.

All that said, I find it very hard to be too critical of MGen Dallaire if one considers all of the factors involved.

Cheers.

 

[Bean]

For those who missed it, Shake Hand With he Devil, the documentary will be re-played Thursday night at 10 EST on CBC Newsworld.  May do the best job to answer some of the questions like why many here admire him and his efforts so much.

 

[Strike]

Right off I'll state that I am not a fan of General Dallaire Some questions:

1- According to news reports at the time Gen. Dallaire actually witnessed the execution of some Belgian Soldiers. Why did he not just charge right in there instead of taking off in the other direction?

2- Why did Gen. Dallaire not testify at the Belgian Government's inquiry into the murder of the Belgian Soldiers?

As Michael alludes there seems to be a lot of propaganda being slung about. I guess we have run up against the Teflon Regiment again

Art Johnson,

Lets's see if I can answer these.   Keep in mind it will be a mix of opinion, what I picked up from the film, and just plane old tactical smarts.

1.   Sure, jump in there and get shot himself.   Then the whole operation goes bust since the leader is dead.
Here's a question for you -- Why do you think the Belgian soldiers were targeted?   Because of their history with the country.   Here is a prime example where the UN failed, by assigning a country to UN duties that was much the cause of the hatred between the Tutsis and the Hutus.   (Read "A Sunday at the Pool in Kigali" for more info on this.)

2.   This was an inquiry initiated and run by said inquiry w/o any real backing from other nations.   They were looking for someone to blame.   That would be like Iraq holding an inquiry about the bombing of civilians and expecting the US, Britain, et al. to attend.

I am not saying that I drool over this man.   He is the first to admit that he wasn't ready for this deployment due to his own lack of field experience, no funding and support, and no historical data via INTSUMs.   What I do admire is that he is bringing the world of genocide to our eyes.   He is also showing us how real and personal a mental illness can be, because that is what PTSD is, and how everyone is succeptible.   Within minutes of his arrival back to Kigali, he was being interviewed by the media and they asked him how the genocide had affected him.   He explained that he had to take pills everyday to feel normal, and likened it to a diabetic taking insulin everyday to survive.   Here is a man that looks so strong but is ready to admit his weaknesses and illnesses.   These are the reasons that I admire him.

One of the hardest things we face in the military is admiting that we may need help.   He has shown us that we are not alone.

 

[pbi]

According to news reports at the time Gen. Dallaire actually witnessed the execution of some Belgian Soldiers. Why did he not just charge right in there instead of taking off in the other direction?

I don't know, nor do I think do most of us. Did you read his book?

Why did Gen. Dallaire not testify at the Belgian Government's inquiry into the murder of the Belgian Soldiers?

I tend to agree with Strike's assessment. He may also have been in no mental state to do so.

As Michael alludes there seems to be a lot of propaganda being slung about. I guess we have run up against the Teflon Regiment again

Teflon Regiment? The RCA? I never heard them called that before.

The Belgians were a particularly brutal colonial power who, along with their French friends, had God knows what agenda in returning to Africa. They were there because nobody else would offer troops. I agree with Strike that there may be some evidence to suggest that the Belgians may have provoked their own deaths. That doesn't excuse their murder, but perhaps makes it easier to understand. If the Belgians currently in ISAF are any indication IMHO they're a fairly undisciplined lot.

Cheers

 

[JBP]

As I read "Shake Hands with the Devil", (half way through), I find myself wondering if Mr. Dallaire could have done more. Even at the expense of his command of the mission and his UN Chapter 6 restrictions... Other than that he followed what he was told to do to the letter and never faltered his orders.

But it has come to mind several times, I'd think to myself, "What would I have done in that situation?"... If I had years of military training, responsibility and put into a position such as that and told to do NOTHING... I don't know if I could just stand there, even if it wasn't allowed because of some croonies back in New York. I suppose that's why people like me probably don't make it to General... Lol.

I think most of you can understand though. When the genocide started and he was at HQ recieving the calls for support, and all the entrenched roadblocks were in place. How could you sit idly by knowing people were being SLAUGHTERED. I don't know if I could have followed the orders to not intervene. He was told, "Do not fire unless fired upon and only in self defence!". He was ordered not to become involved yet he was there to stop such an incident.

This is also why I respect the man, he must have torn himself to pieces emotionally and mentally, agonizing over the decisions he's made through that time and always second guessing himself. Now he admits what decisions may have been wrong (I'm certainly not one to judge), and tries to educate the masses to never accept such an atrocity again.

Therein lies part of the burden of leadership, it's always said that with leadership comes great responsibility. I don't think many of us realize what that means or how MUCH responsibility until people's LIVES literally depend on you. People also argue if leadership is an art or a science, I think it comes from the heart. Maybe he didn't make the grade then, but he's attoning for it now...