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Hey KC,
What if doing this keeps the couple from divorcing and thereby not a leaving single parent family?
What if doing this keeps the couple from divorcing and thereby not a leaving single parent family?
Ruling against legislating morality
- Thread starter Infanteer
- Start date
Ex-Dragoon said:
Hmmm. Not quiet sure where that linkage came from. I have said nothing derogatory about homosexuals vis-a-vis swinging because there is a significant difference. One is a behaviour you are born with. The other is a lifestyle choice.
Ex-Dragoon said:
I disagree. In and of itself, the ruling is not horribly significant. However, when looking at the entire situation of morality, specifically, that the ruling is just another link in a chain of rulings and considering what other issues it can lead to, the references to drugs, prostitution etc. are quite justified.
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Its the same view many people had/have of gay men, that they would not trust their children around them because they believed those said gay males would molest their children. Its the same POV. We are just changing gay man out for swinger, not to trust someone for what they do behind closed doors seems rather extreme, especially since its not illegal.
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Bruce, sorry to butt in but I would be worried for that couple if thats all that keeps them together.
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Well that was hypothetical, however does a marriage usually break up for just one big thing or lots of little things......?
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Bruce Monkhouse said:
Depends on the marriage and how each viewed the big thing and the lots of little things. No maritial breakdowns are alike, each have their own unique circumstances.
Infanteer said:
Such anger. tsk tsk.
So much research, so little bandwidth. Here's a start:
Six of seven studies that looked at whether overall rates of single
parenthood affected average crime rates found that changes in family
structure were related to increases in crime. For example:
· A study that looked at the relation between divorce rates and out-of-wedlock birthrates and violent crime between 1973 and 1995 found that nearly 90% of the change in violent crime rates can be accounted for by the change in percentages of out-of-wedlock births. (Mackey and Coney 2000, p. 352)
· A study that looked at crime in rural counties in four states concluded,
"[A]n increase of 13% in female-headed households would produce a doubling
of the offense rate." (Osgood and Chambers 2000, p. 103)
This info from the website divorcereform.org/crime.html....There is much more however....try Google
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kcdist said:
No worries KC sometimes its hard to guage ones mood through cyberspace.
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It ain't anger; I love a spirited debate, especially over the holidays.
Your stats would be more convincing if it were from an unbiased source. When you find facts supporting the idea that a single parent is directly correlated to increased criminality from the source called "divorce reform", I'm going to be a little skeptical. Maybe I'll ask the Catholic Church for some stats on homosexuality.
Here's what I found with a little digging from a better source.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pji02.pdf
Sure, more incarcerated criminals reported living with a single-parent or a guardian; but not much - it ranges in the 40-50% range. This means that the other rough half of the criminal population had married parents. This only looks at incarcerated people; so it probably doesn't include the vast majority of white collar offenders who come from a higher socioeconomic background.
So much for correlation.
Here are issues I'm more likely to believe have positive correlation to criminal tendencies:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#inmates
- Half (50%) of convicted jail inmates were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the offense, down from 59% in 1996.
- Three out of every four convicted jail inmates were alcohol or drugs-involved at the time of their current offense.
- Thirty-one percent of jail inmates had grown up with a parent or guardian who abused alcohol or drugs
- Forty-six percent had a family member who had been incarcerated.
- More than 50% of the women in jail said they had been physically or sexually abused in the past, compared to more than 10% of the men.
Just a snippit and, as said earlier, these stats are anything but definitive. But they do give us an glimpse, and using that thing called common sense that you were bragging about earlier leads us to figure that there are bigger issues in criminal behaviour then the fact that mommy and daddy split up.
Anyways, what does have to do with swinging? You still haven't answered my questions on the right path to morality.
Your stats would be more convincing if it were from an unbiased source. When you find facts supporting the idea that a single parent is directly correlated to increased criminality from the source called "divorce reform", I'm going to be a little skeptical. Maybe I'll ask the Catholic Church for some stats on homosexuality.
Here's what I found with a little digging from a better source.
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/pub/pdf/pji02.pdf
Sure, more incarcerated criminals reported living with a single-parent or a guardian; but not much - it ranges in the 40-50% range. This means that the other rough half of the criminal population had married parents. This only looks at incarcerated people; so it probably doesn't include the vast majority of white collar offenders who come from a higher socioeconomic background.
So much for correlation.
Here are issues I'm more likely to believe have positive correlation to criminal tendencies:
http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/bjs/crimoff.htm#inmates
- Half (50%) of convicted jail inmates were under the influence of drugs or alcohol at the time of the offense, down from 59% in 1996.
- Three out of every four convicted jail inmates were alcohol or drugs-involved at the time of their current offense.
- Thirty-one percent of jail inmates had grown up with a parent or guardian who abused alcohol or drugs
- Forty-six percent had a family member who had been incarcerated.
- More than 50% of the women in jail said they had been physically or sexually abused in the past, compared to more than 10% of the men.
Just a snippit and, as said earlier, these stats are anything but definitive. But they do give us an glimpse, and using that thing called common sense that you were bragging about earlier leads us to figure that there are bigger issues in criminal behaviour then the fact that mommy and daddy split up.
Anyways, what does have to do with swinging? You still haven't answered my questions on the right path to morality.
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Over time I will try to become the link gods that some of you are but in the mean time...
Did someone not say once "your right to swing your arms ends at the end of my nose"(sic). People should be left to decide what their moral barometer is and to decide what is right or wrong as individuals. At such time as it affects someone else, then the State steps in if necessary. I am sick to death of this "slippery slope" crap. A slope is part of a hill. A hill has two sides (generally). There is a slope on the other side. That other slope is what no one in Canada seems too worried about. The winy-liberal-huggy-feely-apologize-for-everything slope that we seem to be going down on a waxed Krazy Karpet TM.
I think Infanteer is bang on when he suggests that there are more important issues to deal with than some bored swingers gettin' it on.
Did someone not say once "your right to swing your arms ends at the end of my nose"(sic). People should be left to decide what their moral barometer is and to decide what is right or wrong as individuals. At such time as it affects someone else, then the State steps in if necessary. I am sick to death of this "slippery slope" crap. A slope is part of a hill. A hill has two sides (generally). There is a slope on the other side. That other slope is what no one in Canada seems too worried about. The winy-liberal-huggy-feely-apologize-for-everything slope that we seem to be going down on a waxed Krazy Karpet TM.
I think Infanteer is bang on when he suggests that there are more important issues to deal with than some bored swingers gettin' it on.
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Beware the nanny state!
It's funny, I was having a discussion similar to this last night at the Bulgarian contingent's Christmas dinner. They had Bulgarian music playing and one fellow began to tell me "when I was growing up in Communist Bulgaria, in high school, this music was banned..." It wasn't anti-communist, anti-state, or political in any way, someone in The Party simply deemed it "wrong" and that was that. He had friends who got in serious trouble for listening to heavy metal music, which was also forbidden. Not the type of place I would like to live in.
Maybe we take our freedoms for granted because we don't know what it's like not to have them. But if we keep trying to legislate and regulate anything that may cause someone harm "to be on the safe side" we might find out what it's like... that "other slope" zipperhead_cop is referring to.
Oh and happy boxing day!
It's funny, I was having a discussion similar to this last night at the Bulgarian contingent's Christmas dinner. They had Bulgarian music playing and one fellow began to tell me "when I was growing up in Communist Bulgaria, in high school, this music was banned..." It wasn't anti-communist, anti-state, or political in any way, someone in The Party simply deemed it "wrong" and that was that. He had friends who got in serious trouble for listening to heavy metal music, which was also forbidden. Not the type of place I would like to live in.
Maybe we take our freedoms for granted because we don't know what it's like not to have them. But if we keep trying to legislate and regulate anything that may cause someone harm "to be on the safe side" we might find out what it's like... that "other slope" zipperhead_cop is referring to.
Oh and happy boxing day!
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Hey Ex-Dragoon birth control is the one question that shows a persons grounding in reality. I liked yours. Now if you had gone off on a rant about birth control in schools leading to moral decay and pre-marital sex I would have been saddened. :'(
If they were able to ban swingers clubs what would be next strip clubs? and soon I would have to look at the floor at all times while in the gym.
If they were able to ban swingers clubs what would be next strip clubs? and soon I would have to look at the floor at all times while in the gym.
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Gunnerlove said:
"grounding in reality" I like that!
Not to go off on a tangent, but this is perfectly illustrated by the situation in the US. Certain "interest groups" are opposed to the recently discovered vaccine for HPV, which is responsible for about 75% of cervical cancer in women (IIRC). The vaccine is almost 100% effective. Why would they be opposed to something that will save lives? Because they think it will encourage promiscuity, and undermine their message of abstinence to high school students... talk about being out of touch with reality :
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LOL Gunnerlove I only tend to rant about naval matters these days.
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zipperhead_cop said:
Exactly - speculation. So what you're saying is that based on your experience as a police officer (which you cited as an example of why you have some credibility in this area), you don't know anything about swinger's clubs and you're just guessing as to the outcome.
Jarnhamar
Army.ca Myth
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No doubt there's some clubs that operate like prostitution, same way massage parlors do. You can find that all over dalhousie street in ottawa.
Other clubs i'm sure are legit. Who really cares whats going on behind closed doors. It can't be any worse than college and university dorms and parties.
I remember one party we took off from was right fucked up. Among the retardedness going on, there was a girl laying naked on the couch and anyone who wanted to could just hop right on. Mommy and daddies money well spent.
While I find that RTFO it's their buisness what their doing. Their not bothering anyone else, their not bothering me.
You nay sayers need to listen to jack johnson more
I chatted up a couple who go to one of these clubs. Among their regular 'friends' there were a doctor, a judge, lawyers, retired cop and a colonel from the CF.
Other clubs i'm sure are legit. Who really cares whats going on behind closed doors. It can't be any worse than college and university dorms and parties.
I remember one party we took off from was right fucked up. Among the retardedness going on, there was a girl laying naked on the couch and anyone who wanted to could just hop right on. Mommy and daddies money well spent.
While I find that RTFO it's their buisness what their doing. Their not bothering anyone else, their not bothering me.
You nay sayers need to listen to jack johnson more
I chatted up a couple who go to one of these clubs. Among their regular 'friends' there were a doctor, a judge, lawyers, retired cop and a colonel from the CF.
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I bet the retired cop does some terrible things to the wives of the lawyer and the judge. >
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