Sacrifice Medal Mega Thread

[the 48th regulator]

Uh, Tess, five years doesn't bring us back to the start of Afghanistan. Five years retroactive brings us back to '03, while our first fatalities were incurred in April '02, and likely we had wounded prior to that.

The Sacrifice medal is retroactive to October 7th, 2001. Even if you go by the date the first official proposal for the medal was, made, I doubt it so exactly fits with five years after the start of the invasion. The medal criteria has been set so that it starts with Afghanistan, you are correct in that, but the normal five year term has clearly been jiggled a little bit so as to accomplish this.

Well Brihard,

Then we have proven that the the Rideau Hall spokeswoman, Ms. Thorn, is misinformed.

If the "Spokesperson" is wrong, well wouldn't you agree, that not much thought was put into this medal after all?

dileas

tess

 

[armyvern]

Well Brihard,

Then we have proven that the the Rideau Hall spokeswoman, Ms. Thorn, is misinformed.

If the "Spokesperson" is wrong, well wouldn't you agree, that not much thought was put into this medal after all?

dileas

tess

No Tess, nothing says she was misinformed.

Here's what you quoted:

According to Ms. Thorn, the Rideau Hall spokeswoman, there is a five-year retroactive eligibility for awards, counting from the time an honour is initially proposed. That allows the Sacrifice Medal to be backdated to the start of the Afghan conflict, but doesn't allow it to apply to casualties from Bosnia, Rwanda, Somalia and the Gulf War.

This Medal could have been backdated 5 years from the date that it was initially proposed. That initial proposal occured in September 2006 - ergo this medal could have been backdated until September 2001 (thus that 5 year max limit for backdating as per your quote above). Instead though of backdating it the full 5 years (as they could have), they backdated it to begin on 7 Oct 2001 - the date that we formally committed to the current mission in Afghanistan.

It was backdated 4 years and 11 months - instead of the full 5 that it could have been. And in most circles, a backdating of 4 years and 11 months is pretty close to saying "5 years".

Nothing here infers that Ms. Thorn is misinformed. Your quote could says it "could be backdated 5 years from the date of proposal" not that it "will be backdated 5 years from the date of proposal", and in this case --- it's a month shy of that 5 years. The date was obviously chosen based on the start of the Afghanistan Mission - which just happened to be within the 5 year time limit.

 

[the 48th regulator]

Alright,

Then I stand corrected.

My bad.

dileas

tess

 

[3rd Horseman]

Army Vern....Bang on the nail head.
   The minister proposed this and cut the paper work back in 05/06 the date the actual proposal hit the desk would be the date as you have indicated. He and I spoke on the subject and I voiced my concern about the medal. I suggested the wound strip was better just not identifiable after one got out and that should be addressed with a lapel pin such as in the WW 1  and 2 WIA issues. He pressed my hand firm and said it was his medal idea and he was pushing it through. I then asked him how many soldiers with wound stripes he had asked there view on it, he ignored me and walked away.
   My humble view would be to have kept the wound strip and issued a lapel pin. This change is very American and takes us away from the traditional Canadian history of the wounded soldier. I for one will be proud of my wound strip as I received it under the old rules (first generation) YUGO award which were much more stringent then the later wound strip awards and the now current rather open US style award for the medal.

3rd Horseman   

Edit: So I guess what it means in the future is that we will all be old men, sitting around the Legion ...mess and pulling out our wound strips/medals in public and seeing who's is bigger...I mean better.

 

[geo]

Hmmm comparing scars again 3rd ?

 

[3rd Horseman]

Geo nice to hear from you, I could not resist the little male camp fire humour!
  After the big CAV motorcycle accident in Gagetown last month I have a few more scares also to add to the body history. No medal for that just Road Rash Crest for the biker vest.

3rd

 

[armyvern]

Army Vern....Bang on the nail head.
   The minister proposed this and cut the paper work back in 05/06 the date the actual proposal hit the desk would be the date as you have indicated. He and I spoke on the subject and I voiced my concern about the medal. I suggested the wound strip was better just not identifiable after one got out and that should be addressed with a lapel pin such as in the WW 1  and 2 WIA issues. He pressed my hand firm and said it was his medal idea and he was pushing it through. I then asked him how many soldiers with wound stripes he had asked there view on it, he ignored me and walked away.
   My humble view would be to have kept the wound strip and issued a lapel pin. This change is very American and takes us away from the traditional Canadian history of the wounded soldier. I for one will be proud of my wound strip as I received it under the old rules (first generation) YUGO award which were much more stringent then the later wound strip awards and the now current rather open US style award for the medal.

3rd Horseman   

Edit: So I guess what it means in the future is that we will all be old men, sitting around the Legion ...mess and pulling out our wound strips/medals in public and seeing who's is bigger...I mean better.

You're alive!!

After seeing you in Moncton at Atlanticade ... and after all the Sturgis talk there ... I never saw one of the guys --- and I watched out for them all in Sturgis too. Perhaps I just wasn't seeing straight - or seeing at all.  8)

Rest assured, even though this medal is now official --- I'm sure that most of us, like me, will still recognize the significance of those Wound Stripes and appreciate the sacrifice that those of you who will be continuing to wear them due to non-elegibility for the medal have made on behalf of your Country. You all have my respect. And, in my eyes --- are no lesser than your Comrades-in-Arms who will be receiving the medals. There but by the grace of God go I.

Take care of yourself.

 

[forgotten]

I do qualify for the wound stripe..However according the person i talked to in Ottawa is "yes you do however there is a time limit..if I gave it to you I would have to give it to every relative back to the Boer war"..That is not the reply i wanted..I was shocked..secondly "Bravo Zulu" to Ottawa striking a new medal called the sacrifice medal..However..only backdating to 2001..that's a shame what about all the people who were wounded or killed "in the service of peace". I feel that peacekeepers are being pushed to the side again..I don't mean to sound like I am complaining..I certainly agree that the people that are serving in Afghanistan do deserve this medal..But as a former serving member who was wounded in action i am deeply hurt..What is my recourse of action?...Thanking you in advance..

 

[armyvern]

I do qualify for the wound stripe..However according the person i talked to in Ottawa is "yes you do however there is a time limit..if I gave it to you I would have to give it to every relative back to the Boer war"..That is not the reply i wanted..I was shocked..secondly "Bravo Zulu" to Ottawa striking a new medal called the sacrifice medal..However..only backdating to 2001..that's a shame what about all the people who were wounded or killed "in the service of peace". I feel that peacekeepers are being pushed to the side again..I don't mean to sound like I am complaining..I certainly agree that the people that are serving in Afghanistan do deserve this medal..But as a former serving member who was wounded in action i am deeply hurt..What is my recourse of action?...Thanking you in advance..

Your CoA is the Wound Stripe. Inured soldiers who sustained their wounds prior to 07 Oct 2001, who are entitled to wear the Wound Stripe may still do so.

 

[forgotten]

Your CoA is the Wound Stripe. Inured soldiers who sustained their wounds prior to 07 Oct 2001, who are entitled to wear the Wound Stripe may still do so.

Ok fair enough but I do not have a wound stripe and i prefer to get through the official channels and will not purchase it..in any way..I hope eventually that I will get it officially..BTW this happened in feb 16 1977 on OP Stavros Cyprus

 

[armyvern]

Ok fair enough but I do not have a wound stripe and i prefer to get through the official channels and will not purchase it..in any way..I hope eventually that I will get it officially..BTW this happened in feb 16 1977 on OP Stavros Cyprus

If you believe that you are so entitled, and you have not been awarded it -- I suggest that you speak to your immediate supervisor and get them on it. Your Chain of Command needs to look after this, it's not something that you do on your own.

Freedom of Information Access request for your Service and Medical records.

I believe then, that the normal CoA is to arrange to have it formally presented to you via Legion or other means etc should entitlement to the Wound Stripe be verifiable.

 

[forgotten]

If you believe that you are so entitled, and you have not been awarded it -- I suggest that you speak to your immediate supervisor and get them on it. Your Chain of Command needs to look after this, it's not something that you do on your own.

Freedom of Information Access request for your Service and Medical records.

I believe then, that the normal CoA is to arrange to have it formally presented to you via Legion or other means etc should entitlement to the Wound Stripe be verifiable.

Well what I plan to do is get a hold of my VAC person who works with me and discuss it with her, as I was released medically because of it..a combination of results due to the incident I think that would be my best bet

 

[rwgill]

The date was obviously chosen based on the start of the Afghanistan Mission - which just happened to be within the 5 year time limit.

Ok, I have to ask you since you probably have the answer ;D

This medal was only back dated 5 years, but the SSM (1984) with RANGER bar goes back to 1947.  NATO 1951, PEACE 1947, ALERT 1958.  What gives?  One can only be back dated 5 years, while another 40 years?

 

[forgotten]

OK, I have to ask you since you probably have the answer ;D

This medal was only back dated 5 years, but the SSM (1984) with RANGER bar goes back to 1947.  NATO 1951, PEACE 1947, ALERT 1958.  What gives?  One can only be back dated 5 years, while another 40 years?

Because..OHHHH My heaven forbid that we actually had peacekeepers wounded on peacekeeping duties and it would tarnish our image on the international or national version of what has actually happened over the years.. in peacekeeping?? Cover up me thinks?? I think this is enough and this has got to stop and enough of this!! Sooo what is the next step..I am waiting for a call from "The Center" tomorrow this should be enlightening and as well i contacted the Ombudsman...more to follow..message ends!!

 

[armyvern]

Ok, I have to ask you since you probably have the answer ;D

This medal was only back dated 5 years, but the SSM (1984) with RANGER bar goes back to 1947.  NATO 1951, PEACE 1947, ALERT 1958.  What gives?  One can only be back dated 5 years, while another 40 years?

I'm thinking that one could only be backdated 5 years because there was previous (ie existsing) recognition; in this case - the Wound Stripe was the authorized and awarded as "recognition" for wounds received.

In the case of the SSM (with bars you have listed), the backdating went as far back as necessary to ensure that everyone was recognized for those applicable events/activities. They had not been recognized officially by any means prior to the introduction of the SSM. If the SSM were NOT backdated that far --- then pers would have gone "unrecognized" while others would have been recognized.

With the Sacrifice Medal -- wounded pers prior to the 5 year limit are not going unrecognized - they are just "officially recognized" via different means.

Forgotten,

Peacekeeping?? Cover up?? Please  ... Korean Vets also got the Wound Stripe; ergo the reason that many of today's wounded wanted to see the Wound Stripe remain as "their" recognition for their injuries sustained in Afghanistan too --- history & tradition.

 

[rwgill]

In the case of the SSM (with bars you have listed), the backdating went as far back as necessary to ensure that everyone was recognized for those applicable events/activities. They had not been recognized officially by any means prior to the introduction of the SSM. If the SSM were NOT backdated that far --- then pers would have gone "unrecognized" while others would have been recognized.

With the Sacrifice Medal -- wounded pers prior to the 5 year limit are not going unrecognized - they are just "officially recognized" via different means.

Thanks Vern,

Though I personally do not agree with the policy, I like your answer.

Side note, I have approached my MP about this.  Who knows what will happen.

 

[forgotten]

Thanks Vern,

Though I personally do not agree with the policy, I like your answer.

Side note, I have approached my MP about this.  Who knows what will happen.

I hope I am not out of line here..if i am I apologize...its just that its so frustrating when one group is recognized and not the group as a whole per-say..just a lot going on in the "Veterans" world between this, the age 65 and sisip claw back etc..it can a bit over whelming and seems no one is listening or cares..

 

[forgotten]

OK I just got a call from the center in Ottawa..She informed me that they are going to work on getting me either the wound stripe or if possible the sacrifice medal..It was agreed that its only backdated to 2001 and unfair...So more to follow..I guess i stired up a hornets nest..

 

[armyvern]

OK I just got a call from the center in Ottawa..She informed me that they are going to work on getting me either the wound stripe or if possible the sacrifice medal..It was agreed that its only backdated to 2001 and unfair...So more to follow..I guess i stired up a hornets nest..

Well, in all fairness --- you should have been presented the Wound Stripe long ago (according to details you've given here). So sure, The Centre would certainly think it unfair that you didn't receive such if entitled as do I.

Really, I think the only hornet's nest that you've managed to stir up is that "Why the hell didn't he receive recognition for his wounds when they occured? Why did he fall through the cracks?" And, how many others are in a similar situation in that they were not awarded the wound stripe to signify wounds receive from hostile forces during our "peacekeeping" years? Tess received his, you did not. I'm hoping that your current situation is the exception ... and that Tess' is the rule rather than the other way around.

But The Centre isn't going to get you the Sacrifice Medal; you don't qualify as per the dates. I do hope though that they are able to get you the Wound Stripe that you should have been awarded long ago. And again, when I see a soldier with a Wound Stripe OR a soldier with a Sacrifice medal --- my respect is just the same for both --- both are volunteers who suffered wounds as a result of hostile action while serving their nation honourably.

 

[forgotten]

Ya she wanted me to give details..god..it was painful!! She said that"s OK she can get the information from VAC..But i sucked it up..but now I have one hell of a migrane..An Thx for your respect and god bless you!!