Saudi gang-rape victim is jailed

[PMedMoe]

[sarcasm on]  I'm now convinced that we should all be "conscientous objectors" to the war in Afghanistan because the Taliban is only treating women and children according to their long-held cultural and religious beliefs and nothing we do can change that.  Guess we might as well leave them to it. [/sarcasm off]

NOT!!

Injustices are going on all over the world and we should be trying to have them changed.  Ever heard of Amnesty International?

Edit to add:  I agree GAP, maybe I should have said she is not being punished by forcible confinement or lashings.

 

[vonGarvin]

You have to understand the role of the woman in Islam- she is property with very few rights in a male dominated world. Her future in society is very much in doubt now that her virtue has been lost.

 

[ixium]

Theres only so much one country can do to another. Do you want to goto war with every country that has a different set of laws than us? How realistic is that.

Short of walking over there and physically removing the people in power, theres little that people over here can do. What do you want sanctions on them? Its going to hurt us more. You want a team of JTF2 to go over and rescue her and bring her back to Canada? The international ramifications from that would be enormous.

Sure it sucks for her. Alot. But theres nothing that Canada can do. The US would have to put heavy sanctions on them, and a huge increase in gas prices would be the result. Do you really think that american people are going to let that happen?

 

[armyvern]

Theres only so much one country can do to another. Do you want to goto war with every country that has a different set of laws than us? How realistic is that.

Short of walking over there and physically removing the people in power, theres little that people over here can do. What do you want sanctions on them? Its going to hurt us more. You want a team of JTF2 to go over and rescue her and bring her back to Canada? The international ramifications from that would be enormous.

Sure it sucks for her. Alot. But theres nothing that Canada can do. The US would have to put heavy sanctions on them, and a huge increase in gas prices would be the result. Do you really think that american people are going to let that happen?

Now, I'm not about to accuse of you of being illiterate -- IF you can show me one place where I said (or even inferred) that we should go to war over this. I said, not to be silent about it. I'll say it one more time -- you need to take your own advice; more silence (ie less talking) ... more reading.

:

 

[PMedMoe]

Now, I'm not about to accuse of you of being illiterate -- IF you can show me one place where I said (or even inferred) that we should go to war over this.

I think that was aimed at my "sarcasm" comment.  :

 

[ixium]

Aye, it was.

But, if theres something that you can suggest that people can do to actually help her, ArmyVern, I'd be glad to hear it.

Its easy to say you're against something. Its harder to accept the fact that you have no say in what happens.

 

[armyvern]

Aye, it was.

But, if theres something that you can suggest that people can do to actually help her, ArmyVern, I'd be glad to hear it.

Its easy to say you're against something. Its harder to accept the fact that you have no say in what happens.

It's easier still to advocate silence.

There is nothing to be done to help her personally (and I'm quite sure that she's well aware of that fact), but perhaps her "non-silent" actions and the voices of outrage rising up over her treatment world-wide ... will slowly lead to change. Perhaps those with rising voices won't be able to prevent this with even the next rape victim -- nor even the one after that ... but eventually those voices may grow in numbers and locals will join in the outcry as well. Perhaps.

But that "perhaps" ... sure as hell beats sitting on my ass here in Canada being silent and advocating that the victim "be silent" just "because that's the way it happens to be there and they don't care what we think."

So, right back at you ...

Its easy to say you're against something

...

But, if theres something that you can suggest that people can do to actually help her

What's your proposal?? Other than her shutting up and taking her spoonful of medicine?

 

[ixium]

Here, l'll take a quote from your book:

Now, I'm not about to accuse of you of being illiterate -- IF you can show me one place where I said (or even inferred) that she remain silent. I simply said that she went about it the wrong way, which is obvious.

My proposal was on another page, that she rally up people and show that people aren't going to take it anymore.

 

[armyvern]

Here, l'll take a quote from your book:

Now, I'm not about to accuse of you of being illiterate -- IF you can show me one place where I said (or even inferred) that she remain silent. I simply said that she went about it the wrong way, which is obvious.

My proposal was on another page, that she rally up people and show that people aren't going to take it anymore.

Illiterate and hopelessly misguided and naive then.

Ever tried to rally up people and show you're not going to take it anymore from the inside of a Saudi prison (either male or female -- it doesn't matter)??

She's doing what she can -- like I said.

Reality really needs to sneak up on you yet and give you a swift check. Are you ever going to stop trying to justify their actions for them??

And regarding this bit:

Its harder to accept the fact that you have no say in what happens.

I'm quite sure that is probably exactly the words that my great-grandfather used to explain to my grandmother why she shouldn't complain about not be allowed to vote. I'm quite glad that she threw that reasoning right out with the trash ... where it belongs.

 

[1feral1]

IMHO, i really think this world needs to stop with the country vs country idea. We are all humans on this earth and we have a responsibility to eachother no matter what country, religion or laws.

McKee, the arab world is simply that. Its Mars. Another planet. It really is a different world. They do things different there, thats just how it is.

As for us all being responsible to each other, thats just fantasy. To them the only law is sharia, and they answer and live by the koran, its more than a book, its a way of life.

Over there, these practises are still accepted as much as Hockey Night in Canada is accepted on a Friday night. Over there they think our way of life is a sin, and is a wicked crime, some worthy of killing themselves over it all.

Are they humans there? They certainlly don't act like it. In my time over there, the only thing good about my whole tour is that we all got out of there without any casualities, and arrived back in dear old Australia in one piece. 16,476 citizens of Baghdad were killed in my time in country.

I could care less if the whole region was turned into a gaint glass parking lot, with the world's largest K-Mart in the middle.

Spend some time in the thick of it, and I am sure you and I will have a lot more in common, and the reality of your 'one happy world theory' will be flushed down the gurgler quicksmart.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[PMedMoe]

I realize this thread is over a month old, however, here's a good news story regarding the case. 

Saudi king pardons rape victim sentenced to 200 lashes.

Saudi Justice Minister Abdullah bin Muhammed al-Sheik told al-Jazirah newspaper that the pardon does not mean the king doubted the country's judges, but instead acted in the "interests of the people."

 

[Reccesoldier]

Honestly Wes.  You have to stop keeping all of this bottled up inside. 

 

[Greymatters]

IMHO, i really think this world needs to stop with the country vs country idea. We are all humans on this earth and we have a responsibility to eachother no matter what country, religion or laws.

All of us should remember that most people in this country have the same opinion of how the world should be not neccesarily how it is.  Not everyone is as realist or cynical as the senior members here either.

Wesley makes the best point.  If we threw a bunch of self-proclaimed North American 'experts' on society and relations into Saudi culture for a few weeks, immersed them completely instead of living at a five star tourist resort, the shattered and drooling husks we brought back would definately think twice before uttering their pearls of stupidity wisdom.  "Its Mars" indeed.