'Say Please' at US Border Nets Pepper Spay

[chris_log]

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story.html?id=1351216

As much as I don't appreciate some of the attitudes of some LE types I've dealt with, this guy deserves an 'idiot' award (if such a thing exists).

When the nice man in uniform tells you to turn off your car, you turn off your car. 

 

[Corey Darling]

Once, he said, he asked a Canadian border agent to be more polite when requesting documents, to which the agent responded with a sheepish "please."

;D 

 

[CountDC]

nothing wrong with asking for manners but in this case he pushed too far.  Ignoring the warning was plain stupid and childish.  Even my kids have learned not to push the "I'm not doing it until I get my way" button too far.

 

[Journeyman]

This is a clear example of why pepper spray should be outlawed!


If the border agent had no pepper spray, he would have had no recourse but to shoot the idiot.

- US border secure
- Darwinism appeased
- Canada with one less asshat.

Seems win/win to me 

 

[George Wallace]

- Canada with one less asshat.

Didn't they refuse him admission to the States?  I think we still have that one more asshat.  It also appears that he is a repeat offender, likely to be introduced to Pepper spray in the near future once again.  ;D

Unless deadly force is used, and then he can become a Darwin Awards winner.  >

 

[PMedMoe]

Mr. Fortunato, this is U.S. Customs, not a day care!!  :

I agree with JM, lose the pepper spray.

 

[North Star]

This story has been provoking some pretty brutal comments online about border guards. But a few reminders:

1) We don't have the guard's side of the story;
2) Customs officials have every right to ask you to perform certain tasks in order to be given the priviledge to enter their country, and have to ask hundreds of times a day. You only see them once. Don't expect them to be cheery all the time;
3) Demanding someone say "please" can be even more rude than forgetting to say "please" while performing a repetitive task.

This guy is going to love it when the Olympics kick off...

 

[Neill McKay]

Based on what's been reported in this thread I think there's plenty of stupid to go around.  Cheeking a customs officer is a bad idea, but a violent response against someone over it isn't much better.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Based on what's been reported in this thread I think there's plenty of stupid to go around.  Cheeking a customs officer is a bad idea, but a violent response against someone over it isn't much better.

Get real. It wasn't being cheeky that got him sprayed. Disobeying the officer to shut off his car and hand over his keys is what got him sprayed. The officer has the right to use force when orders aren't complied with. With all the hinky idiots coming through the border, the officer is not required to second guess whether the guy is doing a Ms Manners impersonation, or a drugged up physco looking for an excuse to off a uniform. I'd flag the asshole and never let him into the States again.

 

[hugh19]

Pepper spray is not a violent response, it was the next level of force. The idiot was noncompliant and was warned he got sprayed. Too bad for the numpty he got what he asked for.

 

[Galahad]

The funny thing about this is that he could sue over this, and if he did he would probably win. In civil court it would be a fairly straightforward case to make, as pepper spray is almost always  argued to be an excessive use of force, same thing with tasers.

 

[George Wallace]

The funny thing about this is that he could sue over this, and if he did he would probably win. In civil court it would be a fairly straightforward case to make, as pepper spray is almost always  argued to be an excessive use of force, same thing with tasers.

Are you guys for real?  What court?  In which country?  Resisting/Disobeying a Law Enforcement Officer isn't the brightest thing to do.  Someone really has to be a little on the dimwitted side to antagonize an officer doing their duty.

 

[Neill McKay]

Pepper spray is not a violent response,

It certainly is.

it was the next level of force.

It may well be that, too.  They're not mutually exclusive.

Someone really has to be a little on the dimwitted side to antagonize an officer doing their duty.

You're absolutely right.  But people do successfully sue others over their own stupidity from time to time (more's the pity).

 

[George Wallace]

Pepper spray is not a violent response,

It certainly is.

it was the next level of force.

It may well be that, too.  They're not mutually exclusive.

:

Let's see.

US Border Agent armed with sidearm and can of pepper spray.

Uses pepper spray.

Doesn't use firearm.

Violent or nonviolent response?

I would say that it was a rather restrained response considering the fact that a motorist, operating a "deadly weapon" (automobile), was being beligerant.

 

[Galahad]

I never said what he did was smart, or that he should have disobeyed orders from a law enforcement officer. All I was getting at was that in most situations pepper spray could be considered excessive use of force.

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't in this case, I don't know. But it's his right to sue if he wants to,and unlike criminal court, he wouldn't have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, just enough to convince a judge, and I'm sure he could find at least half a dozen precedents where people have sued for being pepper sprayed and won.

 

[George Wallace]

Maybe it was maybe it wasn't in this case, I don't know. But it's his right to sue if he wants to,and unlike criminal court, he wouldn't have to prove it beyond reasonable doubt, just enough to convince a judge, and I'm sure he could find at least half a dozen precedents where people have sued for being pepper sprayed and won.

Again, in what court?  In what country?

As for precedence; someone being pepper sprayed at a protest is not the same as someone being pepper sprayed attempting to run the border.  With the current climate in the US and Homeland Security et al, the courts may not find this twit to have any grounds to stand on, and feel it well within their power to imprison him instead.

 

[Galahad]

Again, in what court?  In what country?

As for precedence; someone being pepper sprayed at a protest is not the same as someone being pepper sprayed attempting to run the border.   With the current climate in the US and Homeland Security et al, the courts may not find this twit to have any grounds to stand on, and feel it well within their power to imprison him instead.

Any court in this country, civil court cases are decided by a judge, not a jury, so it is not required to establish your case "beyond reasonable doubt," if you can convince a judge that your case has merit, and the law is on your side, the judge can decide for himself.

He could win if he sued, but he could also lose, but he's entitled to his right to try, as any Canadian citizen is if they have been caused harm.

 

[George Wallace]

Just a point.  It would most likely be in a US Court; not a Canadian Court, as it happened on US Soil, with a US Official.  Not something handled by Canadian Courts.

 

[Fishbone Jones]

The funny thing about this is that he could sue over this, and if he did he would probably win. In civil court it would be a fairly straightforward case to make, as pepper spray is almost always  argued to be an excessive use of force, same thing with tasers.

You don't know what you're talking about. This didn't happen in out tree hugging, criminal loving Canada. It happened in the States where they rarely put up with idiot assholes like we do.

 

[Galahad]

You don't know what you're talking about. This didn't happen in out tree hugging, criminal loving Canada. It happened in the States where they rarely put up with idiot assholes like we do.

He'd be even more likely to win in that case, the US courts are notorious for frivolous lawsuits. You can sue anyone for anything there, thats why they have so many law schools.

In any case, it was still not a smart thing for him to do.