Seamless Canada - MND

[Mediman14]

Today, the Minister of National Defence introduced a new initiative on helping Military Families. One of the issues used in the article was driver's licence. I may be missing something but getting a driver's license is not very hard to get!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/military-harjit-sajjan-defence-minister-1.4749658

 

[Ostrozac]

Today, the Minister of National Defence introduced a new initiative on helping Military Families. One of the issues used in the article was driver's licence. I may be missing something but getting a driver's license is not very hard to get!

Yeah, transferring a drivers licence actually seems quite straightforward. From what I've seen, the biggest issues/complaints with interprovincial postings are health care, children's education and different income tax rates.

 

[Mediman14]

Yup, I agree with you. Health Care from province to province can be hard for a moving family. I applaud this initiative, I hope it help solves many issues CAF Mbrs face with postings. It's better late or never!!

 

[Halifax Tar]

Yeah, transferring a drivers licence actually seems quite straightforward. From what I've seen, the biggest issues/complaints with interprovincial postings are health care, children's education and different income tax rates.

I have always been of the opinion that all reg force people should be taxed at the same arbitrary rate.  I would submit Ont rate as it houses our HQ,  but I am open to other options.

 

[PuckChaser]

I was at a CDS Townhall where he mentioned starting this initiative he termed "CFB Canada". In prelim talks, only Quebec was providing initial opposition. All other provinces were keen to work with DND on this.

 

[hattrick72]

US forces keep residency where they enrol or where they are posted. Residency determines your tax rate and where you get your drivers licence and plates. If you buy a new car you are stuck with that states plates though. So if you are from New York and you are posted to Texas, Florida or a third state you claim your residency there at that point bc they don’t have a state tax. If you are from there never change.....
Been jealous since 2009 would be nice if we could do the same, paying $3000 at the end of the year bc I moved to NS sucks...

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Let's hope it actually morphs into something important (away from DL to things like medical, taxes, cost effectivness), without all the politics.

There is probably a little hassle to going and changing it, but this isn't saving us a cent.

 

[Navy_Pete]

I have always been of the opinion that all reg force people should be taxed at the same arbitrary rate.  I would submit Ont rate as it houses our HQ,  but I am open to other options.

Especially for a maintop posting; going from somewhere with lower taxes to somewhere with high taxes right at the end of the year can be brutal. Truly worth a short IR posting to wait until after xmas to shift the family as it can mean thousands of extra dollars.

 

[PuckChaser]

I have always been of the opinion that all reg force people should be taxed at the same arbitrary rate.  I would submit Ont rate as it houses our HQ,  but I am open to other options.

You could do that, or members are taxed at the rate of the province they enroll in. After all, they technically are just temporarily posted around the country until they declare IPR for retirement/release. We already have enough problems with Ottawa being the PLD baseline, a change that likely broke that whole system.

 

[kev994]

US forces keep residency where they enrol or where they are posted. Residency determines your tax rate and where you get your drivers licence and plates. If you buy a new car you are stuck with that states plates though. So if you are from New York and you are posted to Texas, Florida or a third state you claim your residency there at that point bc they don’t have a state tax. If you are from there never change.....
Been jealous since 2009 would be nice if we could do the same, paying $3000 at the end of the year bc I moved to NS sucks...

It’s not all sunshine with that though, I had a loadmaster ask if we could fly into Florida earlier than planned so he could renew his drivers‘ license...

 

[Halifax Tar]

You could do that, or members are taxed at the rate of the province they enroll in. After all, they technically are just temporarily posted around the country until they declare IPR for retirement/release. We already have enough problems with Ottawa being the PLD baseline, a change that likely broke that whole system.

Fair point.  I figured Ontario was a fair middle ground for provincial taxation.  Lower than some higher than others. 

But I also like your idea of place of enrollment.

 

[Halifax Tar]

US forces keep residency where they enrol or where they are posted. Residency determines your tax rate and where you get your drivers licence and plates. If you buy a new car you are stuck with that states plates though. So if you are from New York and you are posted to Texas, Florida or a third state you claim your residency there at that point bc they don’t have a state tax. If you are from there never change.....
Been jealous since 2009 would be nice if we could do the same, paying $3000 at the end of the year bc I moved to NS sucks...

Or do this. Give members the ability change as wanted.

Yes our taxes in NS are stupid when you look at what you get. 

 

[hattrick72]

It’s not all sunshine with that though, I had a loadmaster ask if we could fly into Florida earlier than planned so he could renew his drivers‘ license...

There are definite hurdles added and every system has its pitfalls. The load master should have used the online forum or mail to renew. I know for Utah I could do that for my wife's licence and vehicle and because she wasn't living in Utah she was exempt the safety and emissions test while I was waiting to change her plates over. Now that being said there are 52 states so probably 51 opportunities for different rules. But after dealing with their government offices for a year I would say stuff like that is pretty standard across the board. 

 

[exgunnertdo]

Today, the Minister of National Defence introduced a new initiative on helping Military Families. One of the issues used in the article was driver's licence. I may be missing something but getting a driver's license is not very hard to get!

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/new-brunswick/military-harjit-sajjan-defence-minister-1.4749658

It’s fairly simple, but there are glitches.

My son, for example. He’s now an OCdt in St Jean. We’re OUTCAN. His DL is our Belleville address right now. Before I dropped him in St Jean a few weeks ago, we went to Service Ontario to change the address on his DL to RMC. They would not change it because he doesn’t live there until 25 Aug. He doesn’t live with us, his passport has been stamped on exit, he’s off my husband’s PeopleSoft file as a dependent.

The law says he has to change his address between “1 day before and 6 days after” moving. So he’s already outside the law because he didn’t change it when he moved out of our house.  He’s going to have 4 weeks of first year orientation when he gets to RMC, likely not allowed off the campus during that time. He can do it online, but only if they haven’t cancelled his OHIP card by that point, the system won’t let you change a DL without an OHIP card because “everyone” in ON has an OHIP card of course! And only if he has access to a computer. Or maybe he can do it on his phone.

Does he change it to QC for 5 weeks? (Hahaha, like CFLRS would give time off to do that! But ON would probably say he should. He’s actually posted there, not on TD). Leave it as our address (he doesn’t live there any more than he lives at RMC)? The ON government won’t let him change it to RMC yet, but they didn’t seem to care that he doesn’t actually live at the address on the license anymore. If we had simultaneously been posted it would be even more awkward.

He’s essentially homeless until 25 Aug, I guess? As I’m sure many CAF members on BTL are.  Migrating from base to base until they reach OFP and get their first posting.  I’m sure most just keep their parents’ address but that’s not the solution for everyone. At least in our case, it was ON when we went OUTCAN, and he’s going back to ON. And he’ll have RMC for 4 years.

Then there is the whole OUTCAN thing. We have to maintain a provincial driver’s license to have our CAF European license. But try to get that sorted with MTO. And again, our address is Belleville, so not so bad. I believe that a lot of members who went OUTCAN from other provinces have been using a friend or relatives address to keep their provincial license while OUTCAN. Not legal, but it’s the workaround.


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[childs56]

Leave his address as it is right now until he gets posted after school/ training.

 

[exgunnertdo]

Leave his address as it is right now until he gets posted after school/ training.

Sure, but that’s not “right” IAW the government of Ontario. He doesn’t live with us. And he’s not on NATO SOFA status anymore, so touchy there too. Plus we’ll be posted back to Canada before he graduates, maybe to another province.  If we get posted to, for example, Manitoba, not Ontario, then he can’t just change his address to ours, he’d have to be there with us to get a MB license. 

Point being, this is the mess that Seamless Canada can try to fix for CAF members. The workarounds we use aren’t technically legal. The implications for my son are minimal, he won’t be driving, but he could still be fined for not having changed his address if he’s caught.


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[ballz]

I'm not exactly sure *why* people want a standardized DND income tax-rate.

You live in whatever province you live in. That province offers different services at different levels in different ways based on its tax rates. Yes, in Quebec you pay way higher taxes but you also have access to more services (in theory, anyway).

If you have a standardized DND tax-rate, what level of service is based off of? And should you have to forego you ability to bitch, complain, and vote, in the province you live in since you must be assuming you will be contributing less to the gov'ts coffers or else you wouldn't want this DND rate?

If you take a "middle of the road" approach, then those in the 5-6 provinces with lower tax rates are getting f**ked because they are paying higher taxes than those around them but receiving less services/support.

Luckily, this "good idea" is a nightmare to sort out and I'll be out of the CAF long before they could ever implement it. This would require amendments to the Income Tax Act and amendments to legislation in every province. Have fun.

 

[ballz]

Especially for a maintop posting; going from somewhere with lower taxes to somewhere with high taxes right at the end of the year can be brutal. Truly worth a short IR posting to wait until after xmas to shift the family as it can mean thousands of extra dollars.

There's a far easier solution to this than the stuff being proposed. A CAF-Posting tax credit which is calculated as the difference in tax rates * percentage of the year lived in the former province * your effective tax rate in your new province.

This credit would essentially mean you pay the rates for the first 6 months in the province you came from, and then the last 6 months in the province you are now living in, instead of paying rates for the entire year based on the province you lived in on 31 Dec.

The Federal gov't doesn't even need the provinces to play ball with this, they could do it without them if they are willing to forego the revenue wholly on the Federal side. Adding a tax credit is pretty simply for legislative purposes as well.

EDIT: This tax credit could extend to anyone posted by the Federal gov't, such as the RCMP.

 

[PuckChaser]

Standard DND tax rate is a solution because Treasury Board screwed the pooch on PLD. Ottawa as a baseline was ridiculous,  not updating the rates in a decade is lunacy.

 

[ballz]

Standard DND tax rate is a solution because Treasury Board screwed the pooch on PLD. Ottawa as a baseline was ridiculous,  not updating the rates in a decade is lunacy.

And you think this far more complicated solution will not be messed up by politicians and bureaucrats alike?

A second crack at PLD would likely yield better results and would again be far simpler.