Seeking Divorce Lawyer Referral in Ottawa

[mjl1976]

Sadly I am going through a separation and have an extremely useless lawyer. I was hoping that someone here may have experience with a good divorce lawyer they could refer me to in the Ottawa area. I have already wasted quite a bit of money on one lawyer who has done nothing for me so hoping to avoid that with his replacement.

Thanks in advance

 

[newwifey]

Can't help with the referral, but this is an excellent resource!  Perhaps someone there can recommend one.

http://www.ottawadivorce.com/forum/

 

[opcougar]

mjl....may I ask why you think you need a lawyer, as opposed to self representing yourself? I ask because only you know your situation well, and if you are able to read, write and backup statements with facts, then you are pretty much going to e doing what a lawyer will be paid for. Now I ack that your case might be complicated i.e. kids, house to be sold, pension and all that, but there is a clear cut system as to how all that is to be handled.

In the mean time, if you have kid(s), then am hoping you are paying child support (right of the child) willingly based on the custody/access arrangement between you and spouse? There is a federal table that outlines the amount in $$ and number of kids for each provinces.

Hopefully you have cancelled joint accounts, cable, credit cards and non-essentials of life stuff in joint names???? You need to protect yourself from here on, and also refrain from posting nonsense on social media (if at all you do), and refrain from getting baited into an argument and fight. Yield this advice.....DO NOT GET BAITED.

Child support table. In a case of 50-50 access, CS is paid proportionate to income i.e. difference in table amount of what each parent earns

http://www.justice.gc.ca/eng/fl-df/child-enfant/fcsg-lfpae/2011/pdf/ona.pdf

One Family court forms for every step of the process (what a lawyer is going to use)

http://www.ontariocourtforms.on.ca/english/family/

 

[The Anti-Royal]

I was going to say something inflammatory in response to opcougar's post, but I took a breath.  That said, the aphorism that, "a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a lawyer" is true in the vast majority of cases.

Judges, almost universally, detest self-reps.

Please, OP - for the love of all that is holy and good - retain competent counsel as soon as you possibly can.

 

[Remius]

Get a lawyer.  Don't do this yourself.  It might cost you a bit but it might cost you a whole lot more if you don't.

 

[opcougar]

Please say the "inflammatory" stuff to show what you really know about family law, which is the facet of law in this question. A lawyer is only going to go by what you've told them i.e. facts/BS/lies etc.

I like many others, self represented myself, and have 50-50 custody. I was the applicant in my matter, which meant I always went first at every stage. My matter never did make it to trial, but it came close because of her greed. I got everything I asked for...

- sale of the house
- 50-50 custody (she wanted sole)
- No alimony aka spousal support (she wanted it)
- I kept my pension (she wanted half)
- I took her of my benefits (she wanted to remain on it)
- divorce was on consent

The Judge commended me on my organization, and decorum in court. Yes, and this was a female Judge, and even lambasted my ex at one point. I mean to come on here and tell someone to retain legal counsel is silly considering not everyone can afford teh retainer of minimum 5k, which lawyers go through in no time.

I can present links to CanLii (public database of family law cases in the country), that shows many people self rep'ing.

OP...again, only you know your case and the extent of the matters that needs to be resolved.

I was going to say something inflammatory in response to opcougar's post, but I took a breath.  That said, the aphorism that, "a man who represents himself in court has a fool for a lawyer" is true in the vast majority of cases.

Judges, almost universally, detest self-reps.

Please, OP - for the love of all that is holy and good - retain competent counsel as soon as you possibly can.

 

[opcougar]

How much is a bit....a 50k legal bill after, and on top of that the legal costs of the opposing party?

Yeah

Get a lawyer.  Don't do this yourself.  It might cost you a bit but it might cost you a whole lot more if you don't.

 

[The Anti-Royal]

I paid well over 50K for my divorce.  It was worth every penny to ensure that my rights were protected, that I was secure in the knowledge that my children would be well taken-care of, and that I'd saved money in the long run.

In addition, costs are usually only awarded if the other party is being an absolute a**hat.

 

[opcougar]

Again, you are providing half arsed advice to the OP. You are yet to provide substantiating points to back up your stance as to why everyone should "use a lawyer", considering only you know your case better than anyone else. I will ask you, do you have your kids 50-50 or better yet have sole custody? If not, then you just wasted 50k on nothing

Some of us have always been more involved in our kid's lives, which has helped make our case. Anyone that delegates upbringing of their kids to the other parent, can't then say they want them on equal footing, when you don't even know the teachers name, or who their friends are.

Child support is a given, and you don't need a lawyer or Judge to tell you that...if you don't want to pay it, then you should have kept your knob in your pants. My point again, I'll hope that anyone in the CAF is able to read and write, and based on this should be able to read documents, and state facts and back them up to present to the other party and a Judge...why on earth is a lawyer needed for this? There are tons of case precedents on CanLii to use to back up your stance, and this is what lawyers do to argue their case.

Again.....

- I got 50-50
- I kept my pension
- am paying CS based on 50-50
- ex is not on my benefits
- no alimony / spousal support is paid
- I spend more on my kid when with me
- take kid to activities (3) during the week
- take kid overseas
- school, doctor, dentist, friends of kid all know me

I did not need a lawyer to get all this. As mentioned before, I know a lot of men that have gone this route, and we all talk about our love for our kids and how we will do it all over again because it was worth it! Now I know people that have used lawyers, and still ended up losing and now depressed. I work with 2 people like this.

As for cost...you are wrong, you can expect a lawyer for the winning party / self rep to ask for costs. It is mentioned in every document served...if you did you actually worked on the documents that was served, then you will know this, as there is a box to be ticked. It is usually a tactic to try and get the other party to cave in.

The "over 50k" you spent, could have been put in RESPs for your kids education. Ironic isn't it considering you talk about "making sure your kids are looked after"

I paid well over 50K for my divorce.  It was worth every penny to ensure that my rights were protected, that I was secure in the knowledge that my children would be well taken-care of, and that I'd saved money in the long run.

In addition, costs are usually only awarded if the other party is being an absolute a**hat.

 

[George Wallace]

If I may interject: The matter will boil down as to how much you know the LAW, not how much you know yourself and your family. 

 

[Brasidas]

The "over 50k" you spent, could have been put in RESPs for your kids education. Ironic isn't it considering you talk about "making sure your kids are looked after"

I've stayed out of this, having avoided being in that spot myself. But that's a bit much.

Getting effective legal advice, at least at the outset of of a divorce, so that you know what you're looking at and don't screw up the outcome, does not sound like a waste to me. If you've got a vindictive spouse and you're not damned confident about what to do and how to do it, legal fees sound like reasonable risk mitigation to me. Skipping them doesn't mean that money will benefit your kids, even if you try to do your due diligence in self-representation.

 

[Kat Stevens]

As soon as my ex said "we can do this without lawyers", I went and got a lawyer.  Best money I ever spent.

 

[vonGarvin]

As soon as my ex said "we can do this without lawyers", I went and got a lawyer.  Best money I ever spent.

I got a lawyer, and a week ago today was the divorce hearing. I have custody (yes, I'm a single dad with custody of our daughters) and I pretty much got what was fair and just. 

The ex got part pension for the time we were cohabitating, which is just in my opinion.  I pay her no support, and once she starts declaring an income, she pays me child support.

In the end, a barrister knows the law.  Unless you do as well, I would highly recommend that you seek legal advice.  I'm unable to recommend anyone as I am nowhere near Ottawa.

Sorry that your marriage came to this. 

 

[opcougar]

That is why I mentioned in both posts above....CanLii. It has almost (all cases) that have *made it to trial* in the family court. You do a search under your province and federal, to find a case using wild cards that relates to yours, and use that as a supporting material for your case.

https://www.canlii.org/en/on/onsc/

It should be noted as mentioned by me above, if you've never been the type that is really involved in your kids lives, and will rather go hangout with your buddies, you can then try to get out of paying CS, by looking to get them 50-50 or even more silly sole custody...no Judge will grant that.

I am not saying legal advice should be ignored, especially if you are drafting a separation agreement (many examples online) which I'll be more than happy to share my old one with you which is iron clad and covered everything from health, school, holidays, b'day, mother/father's day et al. You will need a lawyer / paralegal to look over it. You stbx will be wise to do the same thing.

It was me (the guy as applicant) that drafted ours based on research, and served it on my ex. Like I said, it covered everything that can cause drama...exchange for child happens at school, so the ex and I don't even see each other and each parent gets to speak to the teachers. During holidays, exchange happens at a neutral location, as opposed to showing up at my / her doorstep.

Travel is taken care of with consent template emailed or faxed with ample notice i.e. a couple of days for outside province, and 14 days for int'l travel.

If I may interject: The matter will boil down as to how much you know the LAW, not how much you know yourself and your family.

 

[Pusser]

Opcouger, I have to say that yours is likely a very special and unique case.  None of the DIY divorces I've had the misfortune to witness (as an accounting officer who deals with pay, court orders, etc, I've seen the results of a few) have ended so well.  I have seen folks royally screwed because they trusted an ex-spouse who told them they wanted to keep it friendly and lawyers weren't necessary.  The first piece of advice I've always given to anyone going through this is to always get a lawyer.  For one thing, a lawyer can remain emotionally detached from it all and can deal with things objectively.  Experience in these things is also a great asset.  Figuring out the processes and the rules while you're going through it is not really the best tactic.  I'm glad it worked for you, but for most folks, it's not so easy.  Just because you can read, doesn't mean you fully understand what you're reading or for that matter, whether you have complete information.  You may not know what you don't know.

I've saved a ton of money over the years by doing my own repairs and renovations, including things that leave my neighbours standing in awe, but I draw the line at plumbing because I just get wet.  Always play to your strengths and get a professional for the rest.  I hire plumbers.

 

[opcougar]

Pusser...respectfully what does an accounting officer know about family law (even the JAG aren't allowed to advise on such matters), your analogy of plumbing, gardening etc isn't the same with family law. Again, you might have missed the part where I said if a person hasn't always been part of their kids lives i.e. very involved, and had a spouse who stayed at home, that right there by default makes the spouse the "primary caregiver". My ex always worked, and I will never be with someone that doesn't work or earns very less than me...that is just an alimony waiting to happen.

Again...I am substantiating my stance with links and documentation. The forms in the 1st post is what your lawyer is going to use, and he/she will add your own comments along with case precedents and submit, why is this difficult for you to do? No my case is not "unique", as I know at least 10 men and women with similar cases to mine and we all self represented. My ex wanted sole custody based on delusional thoughts and advice from her friends...she called by bluff, and she got served.

Again, Lawyer advice is great, but retaining one with not a lot of money in your pocket is not a choice many people have. Lawyers are there to run your retainer to the ground and then ask for more. In the case of buddy above, he spent over 50k and yes he might not have to pay CS, but he isn't getting any either because his ex isn't working.

I am well aware of court orders to garnish wages...I have staff who are in this situation, and that is because they were stubborn, and took that attitude to court. Family responsibility office (FRO) in Ontario and MEP in Alberta garnish wages after a court order is sent to them. I pay month directly to my ex, and that is because after the separation and her moving out, I religiously paid electronically to her...so when the divorce order was granted, she opted out of FRO.

You handling the garnish of wages, doesn't make you privy to the whole transcript of the court case, so to claim that you have witnessed DIY divorces, is stretching the truth. What you would have received from FRO / MEP is the page about how much of the mbr's wages is to be deducted.

 

[secondchance]

It depends .
Look what your ex-wife wants and what you want to get.If for both there is not issue  then you both just need papers to sign it (This is in Quebec).But  in my case my ex wanted custody,spousal support.I had to take the lawyer.After almost one year of process I got custody of my daughter and I don't need to pay spousal support for now. But if my salary can be bigger I don't know. Even if child with me according Law I should pay her spousal support.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Pusser...respectfully what does an accounting officer know about family law (even the JAG aren't allowed to advise on such matters) . . .

I won't include the respect, but what does a signals(?) officer know about family law (beyond the particulars of his own case) that makes him so adamant in his stance of not using a lawyer?  Yeah, yeah, you made out okay when representing yourself, but, get over yourself.  You are not a lawyer nor should you be so stridently arguing that the OP (or anybody) does not need professional legal advice.  If you think that what you gave is legal advice, then I would advise you to stop practicing law without a license.

We have a well established rule on these means of not providing medical diagnoses or treatments.  Perhaps we also should preclude the practice of internet law as well as internet medicine.  While the knowledgeable medical types (as well as the unknowledgeable) may provide suggestions as to possible solutions, the one caveat always stressed is to seek advice from a licensed professional, not some anonymous lunk on the web.

As an aside, JAG officers don't provide family law advice, not because they don't know anything about it (and they may not), but because individual soldiers are not their clients - the Government of Canada is their client.

By the way, I also once thought that I was smart enough to handle my own divorce (30 years ago shortly after changes in the law ref "grounds").  I bought a book about how to do the process written by a well respected lawyer.  My ex hired the guy who wrote the book.

 

[opcougar]

Please in your infinite wisdom point out in this thread thus far, where I mentioned that legal advice should not be sought? I think in your knee jerk read of my post, you are confusing retaining a lawyer (which isn't feasible for most), with legal advice which is cheaper i.e. a couple of 100s vice thousands in retainer fee that builds up to over 50k as in the case above.

Again, read carefully what I said about the JAG. Just because you couldn't manage to handle your own divorce for reasons known only to you and lost out, doesn't mean many men and women these days aren't capable. Again, retainer a lawyer isn't feasible for most, unless you are unemployed and get legal aid, which a lot of mothers asking for sole custody use to their advantage.

I provided the OP with readings, links and documents, which is more than some have done on here, and instead are just saying get a lawyer. I am sure people are aware that most lawyers are just in it to make money, they deep down don't really care about you and your situation, they get paid regardless.

I won't include the respect, but what does a signals(?) officer know about family law (beyond the particulars of his own case) that makes him so adamant in his stance of not using a lawyer?  Yeah, yeah, you made out okay when representing yourself, but, get over yourself.  You are not a lawyer nor should you be so stridently arguing that the OP (or anybody) does not need professional legal advice. If you think that what you gave is legal advice, then I would advise you to stop practicing law without a license.

We have a well established rule on these means of not providing medical diagnoses or treatments.  Perhaps we also should preclude the practice of internet law as well as internet medicine.  While the knowledgeable medical types (as well as the unknowledgeable) may provide suggestions as to possible solutions, the one caveat always stressed is to seek advice from a licensed professional, not some anonymous lunk on the web.

As an aside, JAG officers don't provide family law advice, not because they don't know anything about it (and they may not), but because individual soldiers are not their clients - the Government of Canada is their client.

By the way, I also once thought that I was smart enough to handle my own divorce (30 years ago shortly after changes in the law ref "grounds").  I bought a book about how to do the process written by a well respected lawyer.  My ex hired the guy who wrote the book.

 

[runormal]

First of all I'm not a lawyer, not even close but I lived through an extremely messy divorce, both of my parents spent well over $300k each plus my grandfather sued my mother and I have no idea how much $$ that consumed. I asked her at one point "you've been doing this for years now do you really need a lawyer you must know it and out". She explained that Issue was the lawsuit and she also had a job to maintain (Teacher), furthermore if she lost the lawsuit (which was total bullshit) we'd be on the streets because there was no way she'd be able to pay it. (Back story my parents built up a farm together and obviously all of the assets appreciated. All in all a lot of money was wasted for no reason because my moms initial offer a house (250k) and full custody of the kids (which she got) and no further child support payments sure seems a lot cheaper in hindsight ;D.

That being said as a result of this experience if I get divorced I would consider self representing. From what I understand from the law "Half is Half" and anything that was acquired or put on credit during the marriage is split evenly. Obviously I'm sure it is a tad more complicated depending on your situation. The more assets you poses and if you have children the more sense it makes to hire a lawyer IMO. It is the same thing as filing your taxes, you can do it yourself or you can pay an expert to do it and likely get back more money because they know tips and tricks because it is their job. Obviously this isn't the best example because a lawyer is a variable cost and an accountant is a fixed cost but you get the point.

@OP seeing how I've never been involved in a divorce I can't advise you on whether or not to get a lawyer. However for the love of god, (assuming you have kids) keeping your kids out of this. Do not use them as messengers there is nothing worse than being 13 years old and getting yelled at by your mom or dad because of delivering a letter or just saying that "Dad said X". Man up deliver the letter your self, call them yourself and do what you can to keep both parties civil when picking up and dropping of the kids. Do what you can to keep them involved in all our their activities and sports and what not. If the other parent is being a knob do what you can to get them from transportation from place a to b (i grew up in the country and the only way was around was by car or bike if you wanted to bike for hours). Most of all this isn't their fault so as bad as it is for you just realize that their entire world has been ripped apart and nothing makes sense.

All in all I'm happy by parents split, as my mom is so much happier as is my dad but it was a pretty shitty five years.

Good luck ,