Selling of issued boots, illegal?

[Fishbone Jones]

There is an EvilBay dealer from St Albert Alberta that sells those kind of boots new all the time.  Also Arid pattern cadpat tac vests, cadpat clothing etc.  He gets it two ways.  He buys tri walls full of "D" marked kit at auction.  Secondly, he buys tons of boots straight from Boulet.  They are seconds or rejects and are the company"s to do with as they please.  Not all the new looking kit out there is stolen.

Exactly my point also.

 

[armyvern]

There is an EvilBay dealer from St Albert Alberta that sells those kind of boots new all the time.  Also Arid pattern cadpat tac vests, cadpat clothing etc.  He gets it two ways.  He buys tri walls full of "D" marked kit at auction.  Secondly, he buys tons of boots straight from Boulet.  They are seconds or rejects and are the company"s to do with as they please.  Not all the new looking kit out there is stolen.

Just for awareness, as has been posted to the site many times previously (and another message was cut recently re-enforcing the policy yet again), operational clothing for disposal action is marked with a `D`by clothing stores and it is then processed through to R&D for disposal action. As the message again states, operational kit items in cadpat pattern must be destroyed ... they can not be sold through CADC to civilian surplus shops etc. Destroyed. The message also brings up how they are again having to go out to civilian companies to try to get this stuff back as it was not destroyed. Sounds like clothing stores/R&D at certain bases need to get their heads out of their asses.

I am quite certain this "must be destructed" policy is also included in the supply manual these days. Perhaps an R&D and Clothing supervisor need to slapped upside the head for failing to comply.

Stuff may very well be marked with a "D", but it should not be placed into lots in useable condition by the base supply entities from where dude is getting his stuff if it is operational kit.

 

[Maxadia]

Well, there are almost 300 returns for a "cadpat" search on Ebay, so you can imagine that there's more than just those things on there, plus an unimaginable amount that ISN'T being sold online.  IMO, probably far too many for the MP's to worry about checking each and every one of them, especially when they most likely will be told "They said I could keep it, wasn't on my docs."

Does it make it right?  No.  Would they be able to get a conviction on it? Probably not if there was enough evidence shown from enough witnesses that they were told the same thing.  Considering the amount of it out there, there's obviously a lot filtering through....convicting one guy isn't going to fix the problem.

BTW...these are damn ugly - they look like someone's Cadpats barfed all over their combat boots.  ;DThat is all.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/Genuine-Canadian-Military-Cadpat-Combat-Boots-many-sizes-/300757004914?pt=US_Men_s_Shoes&var=&hash=item8bb5f5067f#ht_562wt_1271

 

[GeorgeD]

What about a few very public convictions on several bases, would't that make people think twice?

 

[armyvern]

What about a few very public convictions on several bases, would't that make people think twice?

I dunno what it would take for the troops to finally "get it".

:facepalm:

They already know this is wrong. Perhaps pointing out how much it just cost the Americans in Afghanistan in lives because uniforms managed to make their way to the wrong types of people? There is a reason this policy/the rules exist. It really isn't f'n rocket science. These "sellers/thieves" may, in fact, be putting you - the troop - at risk unless they are tracking all future movement of our operational dress & kit to the John Q Public types they are illegally making it available to.  I'm not OK with that. And soldiers/sailors/air(wo)men caught doing this should be dealt with officially  ... severely.

Canadian military uniforms are made for Canadian military members. Period. Full stop. All they really need to do is think about it, but they don't.

 

[Daidalous]

I just read the new and cough improved supply manual.  Cadpat is still to be destroyed, same as it was 5 years ago when I was cutting endless triwalls with a pair of scissors.  My hands still hurt thinking about it.

 

[armyvern]

I just read the new and cough improved supply manual.  Cadpat is still to be destroyed, same as it was 5 years ago when I was cutting endless triwalls with a pair of scissors.  My hands still hurt thinking about it.

I hate the new version of it.    Very un-user friendly.

I saved my troops in Gagetown the hassle of scissors ~2008ish ... I contracted for a massive industrial shredder. It works awesomely. 

 

[TN2IC]

I hate the new version of it.    Very un-user friendly.

I saved my troops in Gagetown the hassle of scissors ~2008ish ... I contracted for a massive industrial shredder. It works awesomely. 

May be Ottawa should invest in a mobile shedding truck. Just an idea. If you ask Fleet Management with his issue, I'm sure they can get their hands on one for you.

 

[Loachman]

Perhaps pointing out how much it just cost the Americans in Afghanistan in lives

How many?

I do not know of any instances of US or other Coalition troops being killed by insurgents wearing US or other Coalition uniforms. There are ample cases of insurgents in ANA/ANP uniforms, however. Those would be far better for malicious purposes - an Afghan trying to mimic an American, Australian, or Canadian is just not going to be convincing.

The Americans have a huge aftermarket sales business. Uniforms and other field kit are freely sold in the US, including better-than-issued versions. Our southern cousins do not seem too terribly troubled by that, and I cannot see why we are either.

 

[Jarnhamar]

How many?

I do not know of any instances of US or other Coalition troops being killed by insurgents wearing US or other Coalition uniforms. There are ample cases of insurgents in ANA/ANP uniforms, however. Those would be far better for malicious purposes - an Afghan trying to mimic an American, Australian, or Canadian is just not going to be convincing.

The Americans have a huge aftermarket sales business. Uniforms and other field kit are freely sold in the US, including better-than-issued versions. Our southern cousins do not seem too terribly troubled by that, and I cannot see why we are either.

The terrorists who attacked Camp bastion were wearing US uniforms (I'm not sure if they were something older or something more modern). Still I agree it's all too easy to get uniforms any number of places.

 

[Loachman]

As a supplement to my earlier question, then, was wearing them of any significance? Was anybody fooled by this? How did they arrive at Bastion? In coalition vehicles, beaten-up Toyota trucks, motorcycles, or on foot? How did they move and otherwise carry themselves? Like westerners, or like Afghans? What weapons were they carrying?

I spent seven months watching people, and had no problems differentiating, and that was with, um, "less-than-ideal" Sperwer IR. Clothing had little to do with it. Yes, one could pick out a difference between our uniforms and manjammies, but movement, mannerisms, interactions, and other such indications would allow for differentiation even if both groups were dressed identically.

Somebody could drop a few hundred dollars at CP Gear and just as easily look like a Canadian Soldier who likes aftermarket kit. The only difference between CP Gear's CADPAT clothing and the issued stuff is, really, pockets, and most of those would be covered by vest and/or body armour. Imitations are also available in the older Combat Clothing style, with uncovered buttons, and there are still pers wearing that today.

Anybody could dress like one of us, however few of us would be fooled for more than a few seconds. There would be too many other clues.

 

[fraserdw]

I do not think that making current uniforms hard to get is going to work.  In fact, it makes them more attractive.  I know 2 guys now that have lost their Cadpat coats by hanging them in a civie doctor's office.  When the new raincoat came out the local long hair scruffs had them before most of us...how.... they shopped in the PMQs clotheslines after dark.  I challenged one long haired kid as to where he got his brand new CADPAT raincoat with RCR one hook slip ons and his mommy came to his defense saying he bought it off an army guy.  Family Outfitter's in Fredericton gets 2 or 3 CADPAT item per month from someone selling them for cash.  As of yesterday there is a patrol pack complete, 3 boonie hats, 2 shirts and a pair of new brown boots.  I seen a civie base employee working in a CADPAT raincoat the other day.  The stuff is everywhere it is not supposed to be around this here CFB Gagetown.

 

[Stoker]

I think if the kit like packs and tac vests are suspected to be stolen then it should be investigated by the MP's . The fact that stuff like clothing is destroyed and its this scarcity makes it in great demand for thieves to sell or wear. Put the used stuff out to the public and thefts will decrease.

 

[EME-Glen]

The evidence is before our feet ; just ask him where he got them from?
It should get quite interesting from there.

Reader`s Digest entry for ``Life in Uniform`` perhaps.

Wow, he left plenty of tracks with his pair of Boulet boots.
:facepalm:

Good luck with real answer folks.