Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[FJAG]

I thought in Canada the judiciary were beyond reproach, on high, infallible and their judgments were to be unquestioned ?

That's absolutely correct.

And the multiple levels of appeal courts to correct all those judges were hardly ever used.

Nor did we ever have dissenting opinions within said appeal courts.

 

[OldSolduer]

I thought in Canada the judiciary were beyond reproach, on high, infallible and their judgments were to be unquestioned ?

Heresy and Blasphemy you speak!!! To the stocks and pillories with you!!!

 

[Navy_Pete]

Not sure how this comes up 12 years later, seems like someone held a grudge. Seems like a good reason for CM for abuse of rank to play favourites, but hardly sexual misconduct.

The military's former head of human relations has pleaded not guilty to a service offence in relation to an alleged inappropriate relationship in the past with a subordinate.

Lt.-Gen. Steven Whelan is accused of changing the performance evaluation report of a female military member based on an improper motive or consideration in June 2011 in Jerusalem.

Civilian defence lawyer Phillip Millar, who is representing Whelan, said his client is a "victim of politics."

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lt...beings-sexual-misconduct-allegation-1.6977219

 

[dapaterson]

Not sure how this comes up 12 years later, seems like someone held a grudge. Seems like a good reason for CM for abuse of rank to play favourites, but hardly sexual misconduct.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/lt...beings-sexual-misconduct-allegation-1.6977219

Delays in reporting are sometimes associated with not thinking you would be believed at the time. There is no one simple way for people to process their experiences.

 

[Navy_Pete]

Delays in reporting are sometimes associated with not thinking you would be believed at the time. There is no one simple way for people to process their experiences.

Sure, but sounds more like it was increased to favour the subordinate vice dropped down because of impropriety. Off the top of my head I can think of a few people that sucked up to the CO and got higher scores than dictated by their performance.

Anyway, no point speculating I guess; will wait to see the CM decision. Should be a doozy, if they in fact call the CDS and others as witnesses.

 

[AKa]

Delays in reporting are sometimes associated with not thinking you would be believed at the time. There is no one simple way for people to process their experiences.

Don't forget fear of retribution.

 

[dapaterson]

We need military judges and lawyers why again?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/whelan-charge-withdrawn-1.6984388

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

We need military judges and lawyers why again?

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/whelan-charge-withdrawn-1.6984388

Emails couldn't be used as evidence?
I'd like to see his reasoning for tgat ruling

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Emails couldn't be used as evidence?
I'd like to see his reasoning for tgat ruling

When the prosecution withdrew the first charge, it was on the grounds that the emails were going to be used to show evidence of the inappropriate relationship, to which they would be open to interpretation and conjecture about what constituted an inappropriate work relationship. The judge and the Defence felt it was a weak piece of evidence for this charge, and thus the prosecution withdrew the first charge.

They then tried to admit the same evidence for the second charge and the judge accused the prosecution of trying to sneak previously inadmissable evidence in the backdoor and said unless they could provide better justification than what would amount to a character assassination, it wouldn't be admitted.

While this is all appears very much slimy in the court of public opinion, this is all sound procedural law and it was very much a weak case against LGen Whelan.

Does it mean he's out of the woods? Not in the least. This still is a matter of his credibility and its been tarnished pretty badly by this whole affair. I don't see him rebounding from this, so I anticipate an early retirement and a private sum lawsuit a la Adm Norman in his future.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

When the prosecution withdrew the first charge, it was on the grounds that the emails were going to be used to show evidence of the inappropriate relationship, to which they would be open to interpretation and conjecture about what constituted an inappropriate work relationship. The judge and the Defence felt it was a weak piece of evidence for this charge, and thus the prosecution withdrew the first charge.

They then tried to admit the same evidence for the second charge and the judge accused the prosecution of trying to sneak previously inadmissable evidence in the backdoor and said unless they could provide better justification than what would amount to a character assassination, it wouldn't be admitted.

While this is all appears very much slimy in the court of public opinion, this is all sound procedural law and it was very much a weak case against LGen Whelan.

Does it mean he's out of the woods? Not in the least. This still is a matter of his credibility and its been tarnished pretty badly by this whole affair. I don't see him rebounding from this, so I anticipate an early retirement and a private sum lawsuit a la Adm Norman in his future.

So how did these charges even get laid in the first place? Is there no Prosecutorial oversight in the Military? This isn’t a situation where a judge deliberated on two equally compelling theories of a crime and decided on the Defence’s version. The evidence never even made it to that stage, which means it could have been very strong in the first place.

edit: Could Not have been…

Sigh…

 

[rmc_wannabe]

So how did these charges even get laid in the first place?

Your guess is as good as mine. There was most likely a complaint brought forward, a Disciplinary Investigation was conducted, and it went up to the charge layer (CDS I think) for a decision. Knowing the powder keg of press that would arise from the refusal to lay a charge and see it go to court, I think they wanted it to play out in the courts rather than get slammed in another Globe and Mail expose.

Is there no Prosecutorial oversight in the Military?

I mean you have the JAGs at the Canadian Military Prosecution Service, but again, how much does the "Globe and Mail Test" influence that decision making? It shouldn't but...

This isn’t a situation where a judge deliberated on two equally compelling theories of a crime and decided on the Defence’s version. The evidence never even made it to that stage, which means it could have been very strong in the first place.

I fully agree. The problem that came about in this case (which is mainly hearsay and conjecture) is that no one wanted to be thebperson to put a stop to things because "well the victim said this so..." without actually assessing the merits of the case or the weight of the evidence.

It was sloppy procedures that got it to Court Martial in the first place, but it's solid procedural law that put this train wreck to bed.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Prosecutors, whether Military or Civilian, are not supposed to be worried about the Globe and Mail test. They are supposed to do what is right- not what is popular. Anything else is simply mob rule.

 

[markppcli]

I am still convinced giving the sexual asdault cases over to civilian police will be a huge failure. We likely had the most proficient police force in the country for investigating these types of cases, due to the amount they dealt with in a such a short amount of time and a lack of other policing cases to draw them away (troops are much better behaved than the general public and our police ratio is quite high).

Its a shame many won’t even get their chance at justice due to the supreme court and their arbitrary 18 month rule.

I don’t know if you’ve read the article about the memeber who committed suicide and the reports of the MPs conduct; but I’d be hard pressed to describe the MPs as proficient. They simply don’t do a lot of investigating.

This is what I’m referring to Military police under investigation over handling of sexual assault case

 

[OldSolduer]

I don’t know if you’ve read the article about the memeber who committed suicide and the reports of the MPs conduct; but I’d be hard pressed to describe the MPs as proficient. They simply don’t do a lot of investigating.

This is what I’m referring to Military police under investigation over handling of sexual assault case

I read that and made comments about how he was basically found guilty by everyone- his fellow pilots basically would have nothing to do with him. It’s fucking shameful.

 

[TacticalTea]

Yet another case proving once again that statutes of limitations are critical to a true system of justice.

That and the presumption of innocence.

Sadly, that's not what this country - if you can call it that - stands for these days. Canada has turned into a post-national mess of woke mob rule, in which institutions are wholly dysfunctional and most people are afraid to say and do what's right.

Everyone involved just went along with the nonsense.

 

[markppcli]

Woke being everyone’s favourite stand in word for “opinions and views I don’t like” is tiresome.

 

[Lumber]

Prosecutors, whether Military or Civilian, are not supposed to be worried about the Globe and Mail test. They are supposed to do what is right- not what is popular. Anything else is simply mob rule.

The people laying charges aren't the prosecutors, and some of those laying charges, or their bosses, are very much subject to the Globe and Mail test.

 

[McG]

I anticipate an early retirement and a private sum lawsuit a la Adm Norman in his future.

There should still be an admin review, which don’t require the same level of evidence as charges in court. He may still be kicked out, and you can’t retire to avoid that.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

The people laying charges aren't the prosecutors, and some of those laying charges, or their bosses, are very much subject to the Globe and Mail test.

Just because charges are laid, does not mean a Prosecutor has to take them into court.

 

[Happy Guy]

There is a duality to any sexual harassment / assault case, that of the complainant and the respondent.

A respondent is innocent until the complaints are proven true, however, unfortunately in this climate, once the complaints become public the person is now guilty by public opinion or the Globe and Mail test. The respondent loses friends and support of their peers because they don't want to support an alleged sexual predator. This happened in the tragic case of Maj Cristian Hesand, who eventually comitted suicide. when the respondant I refer you to MGen Fortin's case as an example in which the Judge acquitted him. He is now tainted and his reputation is ruined.

The complainant faces the court of public opinion too once the complaint(s) becomes public. This person must endure public scrutiny and if the person is a female, as it is in the vast majority of cases, then she must face the the wide spectrum of opinion against her. Some examples: she used her female wiles to entrap him to get what she wants, i.e. better PER, favourable position or posting, better treatment and so forth; she held a grudge against him and deliberately set him up; and so forth. One must realize that these cases are complex because human emotions are involved. In most cases, the complainant comes forward with these allegations because she feels that she has been wrong and now demands justice. Once the complaint(s) moves forward, the complainant becomes victimized again, once when she was sexually harassed or assault and again when the public opinion blames her, especially if the respondent is a popular and well respected person. An example of this would be Maj Kellie Brennan.

I would respectfully remind everyone that the public news generally does not give a full account of the facts, especially the context in which the alleged harassment took place. Keep an open mind for both the complainant and respondent and especially for their families.