Sexual Assault & Sexual Misconduct in the CF

[Eaglelord17]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-offence-cases-50-percent-not-transfered-civilians-1.7036266

My biggest concern with this being if they completely strip the ability to investigate these cases from the CAF, what happens in international cases?

 

[SeaKingTacco]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-offence-cases-50-percent-not-transfered-civilians-1.7036266

My biggest concern with this being if they completely strip the ability to investigate these cases from the CAF, what happens in international cases?

Are you questioning the wisdom of a retired Supreme Court Justice? Because, it sounds like you are questioning the wisdom of a retired Supreme Court Justice…

 

[daftandbarmy]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-offence-cases-50-percent-not-transfered-civilians-1.7036266

My biggest concern with this being if they completely strip the ability to investigate these cases from the CAF, what happens in international cases?

Our biggest concern should be that the government doesn't trust the CAF to manage it's own business to the point that they've stripped away their ability to punish/correct some categories of wrong doers, which very likely could be the start of a long slippery slope to even greater level of leadership/ organizational dysfunction.

 

[QV]

https://www.cbc.ca/news/politics/military-sexual-offence-cases-50-percent-not-transfered-civilians-1.7036266

My biggest concern with this being if they completely strip the ability to investigate these cases from the CAF, what happens in international cases?

The easy button is to deploy a couple RCMP on every deployment. I'd guess there would be no shortage of RCMP members volunteering for tax free salary plus allowances on an easy as fuck task where they are treated like gold. The CAF can then distance themselves from outcomes not supported by public opinions.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Are you questioning the wisdom of a retired Supreme Court Justice? Because, it sounds like you are questioning the wisdom of a retired Supreme Court Justice…

I know right. We all know these fine folks are immune from bias, political interference or leaning and would always make the right call.

 

[Eaglelord17]

The easy button is to deploy a couple RCMP on every deployment. I'd guess there would be no shortage of RCMP members volunteering for tax free salary plus allowances on an easy as fuck task where they are treated like gold. The CAF can then distance themselves from outcomes not supported by public opinions.

That leads to a whole bunch of potential issues as they aren’t bound by the CSD and as shown by the antics of some RCMP in Haiti, who polices them internationally?

Its almost like we already have a federal level police force currently bound by our laws even internationally, which we are already paying for, to do that job specifically for enforcing laws on Canadian soldiers. If we can’t trust them to do it effectively 1) why not and 2) how would the RCMP be any better?

 

[dimsum]

The easy button is to deploy a couple RCMP on every deployment. I'd guess there would be no shortage of RCMP members volunteering for tax free salary plus allowances on an easy as fuck task where they are treated like gold. The CAF can then distance themselves from outcomes not supported by public opinions.

Does the RCMP have jurisdiction in somewhere like Afghanistan or Latvia?

Normally, national police forces don’t have jurisdiction beyond the nation unless specifically stated.

 

[OldSolduer]

Does the RCMP have jurisdiction in somewhere like Afghanistan or Latvia?

Normally, national police forces don’t have jurisdiction beyond the nation unless specifically stated.

I think you are right but not being a police officer I am not sure. MY best guess is that something would need to be negotiated with the host nation. But again I speculate.

 

[MilEME09]

Our biggest concern should be that the government doesn't trust the CAF to manage it's own business to the point that they've stripped away their ability to punish/correct some categories of wrong doers, which very likely could be the start of a long slippery slope to even greater level of leadership/ organizational dysfunction.

The flip side of this as well is that we are giving this all over to an already overwhelmed civilian criminal justice system. Without additional resources, people, and facilities, how many cases will actually get processed and lead to trials due to bag logs? vs being dismissed due to to much time passing

 

[daftandbarmy]

The flip side of this as well is that we are giving this all over to an already overwhelmed civilian criminal justice system. Without additional resources, people, and facilities, how many cases will actually get processed and lead to trials due to bag logs? vs being dismissed due to to much time passing

a.k.a "failure to administer justice" I think

 

[QV]

That leads to a whole bunch of potential issues as they aren’t bound by the CSD and as shown by the antics of some RCMP in Haiti, who polices them internationally?

Its almost like we already have a federal level police force currently bound by our laws even internationally, which we are already paying for, to do that job specifically for enforcing laws on Canadian soldiers. If we can’t trust them to do it effectively 1) why not and 2) how would the RCMP be any better?

Does the RCMP have jurisdiction in somewhere like Afghanistan or Latvia?

Normally, national police forces don’t have jurisdiction beyond the nation unless specifically stated.

Every one of the issues you both raise can be easily sorted out or are already sorted out. Somebody just needs to make a damn decision and do.

 

[Blackadder1916]

Does the RCMP have jurisdiction in somewhere like Afghanistan or Latvia?

Normally, national police forces don’t have jurisdiction beyond the nation unless specifically stated.

I think you are right but not being a police officer I am not sure. MY best guess is that something would need to be negotiated with the host nation. But again I speculate.

Disciplinary/criminal jurisdiction over members of a sending/visiting force and the authority of a force's police are usually covered in Status of Force Agreements (SOFA) and may be covered in a Visiting Forces Act.

The original NATO SOFA has become the most widely replicated example of a SOFA. For example, this article outlines some of the rights of a sending force's police.

Article 28
1. The military police of a force shall have the right to patrol on public roads, on public transport, in restaurants (Gaststàtten) and in all other places to which the public has access and to take such measures with respect to the members of a force, of a civilian component or dependents as are necessary to maintain order and discipline. Insofar as it is necessary or expedient the details of the exercise of this right shall be agreed upon between the German authorities and the authorities of the force, who shall maintain close mutual liaison.

2. If public order and safety are endangered or disturbed by an incident in which members of a force or of a civilian component or dependents are involved, the military police of a force shall, if so requested by the German authorities, take appropriate measures with respect to such persons to maintain or restore order and discipline.

 

[MARS]

Every one of the issues you both raise can be easily sorted out or are already sorted out. Somebody just needs to make a damn decision and do.

I think that "Somebody" might actually be multiple people? I am thinking likely the Ministers of: Public Safety, Defence, Global Affairs and probably the Attorney General? Wouldn't be surprised if PCO would be intimately involved? As would PMO. Likely a few others I'm not even thinking of? My limited experience at the Ministerial level leads me to believe it isn't quite as simple, or nearly as quick, as you are suggesting it is.

 

[McG]

That leads to a whole bunch of potential issues as [RCMP] aren’t bound by the CSD …

Anyone accompanying the CAF on deployment is subject to the CSD.

 

[WLSC]

The easy button is to deploy a couple RCMP on every deployment. I'd guess there would be no shortage of RCMP members volunteering for tax free salary plus allowances on an easy as fuck task where they are treated like gold. The CAF can then distance themselves from outcomes not supported by public opinions.

It was the case during WW2. MP were doing Prevoty's job and the RCMP the police job.

 

[QV]

To send a couple of constables attached to the CAF on a deployment (when they already go anyway on some) ---> MND, AG, MPS, Global Affairs, PCO, PMO... and a few others too? Perhaps the King also?

Stop.

 

[Jarnhamar]

The easy button is to deploy a couple RCMP on every deployment. I'd guess there would be no shortage of RCMP members volunteering for tax free salary plus allowances on an easy as fuck task where they are treated like gold. The CAF can then distance themselves from outcomes not supported by public opinions.

Yeah no yeah my union says I'm entitled to a hotel, weekends off, and overtime.

 

[Booter]

Yeah no yeah my union says I'm entitled to a hotel, weekends off, and overtime.

This actually is a problem- there is at least one international school where Canadian cops should be but aren’t welcome because of cost and entitlements. Other nations who take the subject matter seriously don’t have that issue. We re more interested in the benefits than the job it seems to our allies when they discuss it

 

[Furniture]

To the point about deploying RCMP members, it might not even be necessary to have them on site the entire deployment. The MPs could likely secure the evidence/scene locally, and have investigators come in from Canada as required.

I suspect there aren't enough sexual assaults on deployment to justify always having RCMP members on site just in case.

 

[dimsum]

To send a couple of constables attached to the CAF on a deployment (when they already go anyway on some) ---> MND, AG, MPS, Global Affairs, PCO, PMO... and a few others too? Perhaps the King also?

Stop.

For a political hot topic like investigating CAF members overseas?

Yes. Imagine the scrutiny the first case would go through since it’s in a foreign country, and a non-CAF person did the investigation.

Minus the King. Maybe.