Shaving while off duty

[dapaterson]

If on duty, subject to CSD.  If subject to CSD, entitled to pay.

Th CAF ignores this often...

 

[CountDC]

Which should be null and void now with the canforgen on beards...

Why?  It is still valid with or without canforgen.  Just because the army finally gave up and decided to join the navy in allowing beards doesn't mean everything gets thrown out.  The dress manual still exists, the only change is that it is not just navy that can grow one.

Oh, forgot.  Where in the dress manual does it say only applicable while on duty?  Doesn't so yes prior to the canforgen while you were on leave you were supposed to still shave.  Yes I know almost all of us didn't.  My latest beard came when I was on leave, it grew and I decided to keep it. 

As for dress - many units and bases have a dress policy for conducting business published in RO's and Standing Orders.  Yeah those docs that everyone is supposed to read but few do.  Read them and then you know what to expect when you go in.

OR staff can not order you in but can certainly ask you to come in on your own time so they can take care of you.  Generally if they are asking you to it would be to your benefit (pay, claims, TD package, etc).  I can't think of any reason to ask someone in that would be for the benefit of the OR. 

Personally I love when a Class A reservist shows up to conduct business such as checking on their pay or submitting claims during the week rather than the designated work night and then asks to submit a pay sheet.  Of course they tend not to like my answer.

 

[Lumber]

Personally I love when a Class A reservist shows up to conduct business such as checking on their pay or submitting claims during the week rather than the designated work night and then asks to submit a pay sheet.  Of course they tend not to like my answer.

Perhaps you are just looking at a very specific case, which is where a class A was too lazy to do this admin during the trg or admin nights, and in those cases, and those cases alone, I am in agreement. However, I offer you the following circumstances where it would be entirely appropriate for the member to come in during the day to complete admin with the orderly room AND get paid for it:

1. member is working nights for the next month and can't attend any regularly scheduled parade nights;
2. member was not provided sufficient time during the regularly scheduled parade night for whatever reason;
3. the OR just completed the paperwork/travel package, and the member is flying out before the regularly scheduled parade night;
4. member was ordered to go in and complete the paperwork ASAP by their CoC;.
5. etc...

 

[Lumber]

If on duty, subject to CSD.  If subject to CSD, entitled to pay.

Th CAF ignores this often...

Disagree with that last bit.

If you are a class-A reservist and are on DND property, your are subject to the CSD, but there are several circumstances I can think of where you would not be (and should not be) entitled to pay. For exampel:

1. your brought your family to attend waterfront event, and the unit (being on the waterfront) is hosting a few exhibits, and even has a food truck on their DND parking lot. You are on DND property, and therefore subject to the CSD, but I would fight tooth and nail to say you do not deserve to be paid for bringin your family to a city run event that happens to have your base open to the public;
2. Your unit has a military museum. You bring  your dad to show him the museum. You are literally inside the unit on DND property. Sorry, no pay;
3. You forgot your wallet in your locker at the unit. You go back to the unit to pick it yo. On DND propert = subject to CSD, but: NO PAY.

 

[MARS]

1. member is working nights for the next month and can't attend any regularly scheduled parade nights;
2. member was not provided sufficient time during the regularly scheduled parade night for whatever reason;
3. the OR just completed the paperwork/travel package, and the member is flying out before the regularly scheduled parade night;
4. member was ordered to go in and complete the paperwork ASAP by their CoC;.

Every one of those reasons is valid, but still requires someone in the CoC to approve the signing of a pay sheet outside the authorized Admin/Trg nights.  I authorized everyone of those situations at various points in my tenure as a member of the Cmd Team, and also made sure the Day Staff was aware this was approved...but if LS Bloggins simply showed up on her own accord to do any of these things without getting pay pre-approved...and then 'asked' to submit a pay sheet...well, that's what CountDC's example sounded like to me.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

The strictness of how each OR/BOR enforces deportment varies, both in PRes and RegF world...unfortunately. It also varies between every CoC. Would it be easier if everyone had the same standards across the board and adhered to policy to the T—inclusive of new beard policies? Absolutely. But many are sticklers for certain things, others not so much.

Very good points and accurate in my experience with the PRes and Reg force and across the Navy, Army and Air Force. 

Additionally, Orderly Rooms etc don't establish their "own" reg for things like dress;  they're more than likely pulling them from the Base/Wing/Unit dress instructions that have been signed off by the appropriate level of command.

WRT to the original question by the OP, "are their any rules...", this might be relevant as well as some of the other good posts here:

QR&Os: Volume I - Chapter 19 Conduct And Discipline

Section 1 - Personal Conduct

19.01 - OBSERVANCE AND ENFORCEMENT OF REGULATIONS, ORDERS AND INSTRUCTIONS

Every officer and non-commissioned member shall become acquainted with, obey and enforce:
a.  the National Defence Act;
b.  the the Security of Information Act;
c.  QR&O; and
d. all other regulations, rules, orders and instructions necessary for the performance of the member's duties.

(M) [5 June 2008 – (b)]

And from CFP 265 CAF Dress Instructions, in addition to BlackAdder1916s posts earlier, from Chap 1:

2.  This publication, issued under CDS authority, details CAF dress and personal appearance policy, authorized dress items and the method of wearing all uniforms and accoutrements.

8.  Control is exercised by local commanders who may standardize the dress of subordinates on any occasion, including the wear of accoutrements and alternative or optional items, subject to overall command direction.

10.Officers cannot delegate their leadership responsibilities. They are assisted by warrant and non- commissioned officers, who control standards and compliance by all of their subordinates.

* NCO includes Cpl/LS ranks.

For the OP, your question was specifically about a member who isn't able to grow a beard and has been directed to shave IAW the BEARDFORGEN direction.  You can see the regs are laid out fairly well in black and white, and I think BTN hit the nail on the head above;  some units will enforce 'the regs' more stringently than others. 

At my Sqn, sandals aren't authorized while in civilian attire during duty hours (we can wear civies on Friday for $2 towards charity).  If I drop by the hanger when I am on a NWD or on leave, I don't wear sandals even though I am 'not on duty'.  Pick your battles?

 

[Blackadder1916]

At my Sqn, sandals aren't authorized while in civilian attire during duty hours (we can wear civies on Friday for $2 towards charity).  If I drop by the hanger when I am on a NWD or on leave, I don't wear sandals even though I am 'not on duty'.  Pick your battles?

Not even if you wear socks with your sandals?

 

[Eye In The Sky]

I think the requirement is knee-high black socks, but only if wearing cargo shorts. 

 

[dapaterson]

It's fun to see people in civilian clothes wearing issued oxfords and belt.

 

[JesseWZ]

It's fun to see people in civilian clothes wearing issued oxfords and belt.

Your definition of fun and mine differ significantly. I'll add that the issued belt is typically somewhere just below the nipple line on most specimens I've witnessed.

As an aside:

How to dress yourself...

 

[dapaterson]

Fun as in amusing and entertaining.

Stifled guffaws type fun.

 

[Blackadder1916]

I think the requirement is knee-high black socks, but only if wearing cargo shorts.

Black knee-high socks with shorts should definitely be acceptable, especially since they were once uniform issue.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

If my "photoshop" skills were decent, I'd put a pair of Crocs on the first picture and show it to the SCWO to see what he thinks.  8)

 

[dimsum]

Black knee-high socks with shorts should definitely be acceptable, especially since they were once uniform issue.

I'm sorry, there is no way I'd take someone seriously who was wearing that. 

 

[IceBlue]

If you look at the kids in that first picture, they look like they are trying to cover their eyes to avoid the sight of the abomination of that uniform.

 

[Jarnhamar]

I've been given the "you have to be shaved even if you're on leave" while showing up at my unit on leave to do a favor for them.

Easy fix. I don't come in off leave anymore and not too big on the favors anymore either. Reap what you sow I guess.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Black knee-high socks with shorts should definitely be acceptable, especially since they were once uniform issue.

Those are awesome reminders of how awful we can be at times in some ways. Looks like the lineup for every early bird special in Victoria

 

[Pusser]

We used to wear shorts at sea all the time, although generally without the socks - just sandals.  Navy-issued sandals, comfortable (really) and oh, so stylish...

 

[IceBlue]

We used to wear shorts at sea all the time, although generally without the socks - just sandals.  Navy-issued sandals, comfortable (really) and oh, so stylish...

Last time i wore shorts at sea was 2012, and with sea boots not sandals. It looked amazing.


**** Edit was due to me getting old and not remembering the right year ****

 

[FSTO]

We used to wear shorts at sea all the time, although generally without the socks - just sandals.  Navy-issued sandals, comfortable (really) and oh, so stylish...

All the rage until the mafia from HMCS GALIANO became zealots to the two layer church!