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Shiite Iraqi's Losing Faith in their Clerical Politicians

Kirkhill

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Disregard the headline - I have already complained to CP (We LIKE "seculars" so if they are disillusioned things must be bad. On the other hand if the Shia are disillusioned with their Clerics things MIGHT be good.....And that would never do.  Iraq might actually succeed.)

Any who .... here are some of the clips I thought interesting:

A banner mourning one of Shiism's most beloved saints, Imam Hussein, greets passengers arriving at Baghdad International Airport.

Yet, the trappings of Shiite power can make the disappointment worse for Shiites who expected to reap benefits from Iraq's new politics.

Sami Kareem, 26, a clerk from Basra, says he is fed up.

"When the regime was toppled and our Shiite people came to power, we expected things to be much better," he said. "But nothing happened. Every one is fighting for power and money."

Another Shiite, Baghdad security guard Ali Hussein, said Shiite empowerment has done little to improve his life, and those of his wife and two children.

"We Shiites now want a government that realizes our dreams even if it's not Shiite. People are so frustrated that some are even saying that Shiites cannot rule," he said.

Their guys asked for a kick at the can.  They got it.  They missed.  Now they are ready to give "the other guy" a shot.  I don't see as how that can be bad.  Even if it arises from desperation it is a form of toleration and that way lies progress..........but that would be bad if not brought to you be the correct people I guess.



Secular Iraqis disillusioned

By HAMZA HENDAWI
   

BAGHDAD (AP) - Hassan Allawi, one of Iraq's most prominent historians, looked forward to the ouster of Saddam Hussein's government and the chance for fellow Shiites to lead his country.

Now, he's disgusted. "They have come to rule but they have no idea how to do it. They've left the Shiites with nothing to be proud of," said the silver-haired scholar, who spoke by telephone from Syria.

The results of the past four years have disillusioned many of Iraq's Shiites, especially the educated, secular elite like Allawi, 72. They've begun speaking out with grievances and sometimes anger about the Shiite-led government's failure to provide security, services and jobs, and what some of them see as a thinly disguised theocracy.

"We expected positive change," said Saleh Ismail al-Gournawy, 54, an engineering professor at Basra University, in Iraq's mainly Shiite South.

The area near Basra, Iraq's second largest city, is rich in oil. But it remains impoverished, as it was under Saddam, and al-Gournawy blames the government.

The British-educated al-Gournawy recounted with horror a March 22 gunbattle between rival Shiite groups on the street where he lives. There's no end to that violent infighting, perhaps because the government itself is crippled by factions competing for power, he said.

"In reality, we have political groups but not a government," he said.

"We are completely disappointed. They did nothing for us," agreed Mona Hussein, 35, an engineer and mother of two who lives in Baghdad's Shiite Sadr City district. "But Shiites will not revolt against this government because we are accustomed to making do with so little."

Historically, mainstream Iraqi political groups have been secular, pan-Arab and nationalist. While minority Sunnis dominated, they came from both Muslim sects and their biggest following was in the cities.

After the 2003 invasion, U.S. officials appointed and supported Shiite leaders of that stripe, along with those from religious parties.

But beginning with the first of two general elections in 2005, Shiite voters abandoned secular-minded politicians in favour of religious candidates. They heeded fatwas, or edicts, issued by Grand Ayatollah Ali al-Sistani, the country's top cleric, who decreed the faithful should elect candidates from religious Shiite parties loyal to him.

Kamil Mahdi, an expert on Iraq from Exeter University in Britain, says he suspects the discontent is widespread. "I don't think the Shiite politicians in power now represent the Shiite street," he said. "But the oppression suffered by Shiites under Saddam remains fresh on the minds of most Shiites and that keeps them quiet."

Mahdi, who is Iraqi, says the Iranian-born al-Sistani and other top Shiite clerics had stepped over traditional bounds when they meddled in politics.

"The marjaiyah (Shiite religious leadership) should be a moral authority for all Iraqis and a spiritual authority for all Shiites, not just those who espouse parties of political Islam."

Shiite government leaders defend their tenure, blaming the Sunni insurgency, al-Qaida terrorists and interference from Iraq's Sunni Arab neighbours for the government's failure to restore security, provide services, create jobs or combat crime.

Shiite religious leadership was needed to guide the country at a critical time, they said.

"The future of Iraq and the future of Shiism is in the hands of marjaiyah," said Hameed Moualah, a prominent legislator from the Supreme Council for the Islamic Revolution in Iraq, the country's largest Shiite party and the closest to al-Sistani. "It has a divine authority to guide us."

The appearance, however, transcends that of mere guidance.

Posters of al-Sistani and other top clerics peer down from the buildings of most government agencies. Shiite red, green and black banners flutter from Baghdad rooftops, mosques and street lights. The public rhetoric of many Shiite politicians has become increasingly sectarian as Shiite-Sunni violence continues to push the two communities further apart.


Allawi, the Iraqi historian, believes the way out of Iraq's current predicament lies in Shiite-Sunni harmony. Toward this goal, he has made a contribution.

He just published a book, "Omar and Shiism," that attempts to exonerate the name of Omar, a 7th century successor of the Prophet Muhammad who has for centuries been maligned by Shiites.

Shiites believe the 7th century caliph usurped the leadership of Islam's young state. It may seem an obscure historical dispute. But Allawi's point is that such issues have repercussions in today's Iraq, where many Shiite clerics have left their seminaries to enter politics.

"When you are in the Hawza (Shiite seminary), you can say whatever you want and no one outside will ever know," he explained. "You can insult Omar in the Hawza and your listeners will be happy, but when you are outside, you are dealing with an Arab world that's 90 per cent Sunni."

http://cnews.canoe.ca/CNEWS/World/2007/04/10/3972167-ap.html
 
As strange as this may sound, maybe Iraq needs another dictator. Saddam Hussein was faced with the same challenge when he took control - a country that was divided religously, culturally, and economically. He took control with an iron fist and basically silenced anyone who challenged him. Now, that's no democracy, but Iraq did progress immensely during Saddam's initial rule (right up until they started a war with Iran). Women had rights, infrastructure was built, there was universal healthcare and free education, and the military became very powerful.

Maybe it's still too early to predict if Iraq's "democracy" will work. But after seeing the news today (169 killed in 4 suicide bombings), things are certainly not getting better. I wonder if the situation will improve when/if the US pull out?
 
Bo said:
but Iraq did progress immensely during Saddam's initial rule (right up until they started a war with Iran). Women had rights, infrastructure was built, there was universal healthcare and free education, and the military became very powerful.

Been there before? You seem to paint a pretty picture of a shitty place.

Another Dictator needed in Iraq eh???

Try going outide of the cities or the ghettos within the cities. You're forgetting the billions of $$USD$$ recvovered in semi trailers, deemed for Saddam and his family. I've been in some of the Palaces, and compounds, presidential areas etc. A far cry from the mud huts, 40 mins via LAV from the city. Ya, mud huts occupied and no power, donkeys on carts, crude farming impliments of the 19th century and older.

Wank on Bo.

I have seen the countryside, and the ghettos. The poverty, illiteracy (and other depressing things), and 4th class citizens were present long before Saddam.These were present long before his regime, and only worsened after he came in.

We are lucky you don't edit the history books.
 
Fro stability it might be worth reexamining the idea of a constitutional monarchy. A foreign King or Queen who can act as titular Head of State without being linked to any of the major factions might make a popular and appealing spokesperson for the State to the people (and if smart, be able to talk from the people to the State as well).

Iraq was a constitutional monarchy until the coup in the late 50's, and although it is dangerous to generalize from a small sample, Jordan is a stable monarchy and pre war Afghanistan was also relatively stable and peaceful under its constitutional monarchy. (We will avoid examples like Kiuwait, Saudi Arabia or the various Emirates, since power is much more concentrated there).

The only other solution that makes any sense to me is to create a Federal Iraq with three Provinces representing the Kurds, the Shias and Sunnis, with the Federal Government limited in power to Defence, Foreign affairs, banking and a national judiciary and police service. We are pretty much at that point already.
 
Bo,

I wonder if the situation will improve when/if the US pull out?

How do you imagine this improvement is possible?  I can't.

If this is a real trend, it is probably progress. Not much, but progress.
Separation of mosque and state, for the same reasons we separate
church and state. I'll stay tuned in..... :)




 
Wesley  Down Under said:
I have seen the countryside, and the ghettos. The poverty, illiteracy (and other depressing things), and 4th class citizens were present long before Saddam.These were present long before his regime, and only worsened after he came in.


I know it's from wikipedia, but it's worth a look:
Saddam established and controlled the "National Campaign for the Eradication of Illiteracy" and the campaign for "Compulsory Free Education in Iraq," and largely under his auspices, the government established universal free schooling up to the highest education levels; hundreds of thousands learned to read in the years following the initiation of the program. The government also supported families of soldiers, granted free hospitalization to everyone, and gave subsidies to farmers. Iraq created one of the most modernized public-health systems in the Middle East, earning Saddam an award from the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO).[18][19]

To diversify the largely oil-based Iraqi economy, Saddam implemented a national infrastructure campaign that made great progress in building roads, promoting mining, and developing other industries. The campaign revolutionized Iraq's energy industries. Electricity was brought to nearly every city in Iraq, and many outlying areas.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Saddam_Hussein

I don't support the man, just pointing out that, for a brief period, he brought Iraq from relative obscurity to a powerhouse in the middle east. At what cost though...

Flip, I have no idea how the situation will turn out in Iraq. I wonder how much effect the next US president will have on the outcome. Anyways, I'll also stay tuned  ;)
 
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