Shotguns in the CF

[Enzo]

Just wondering why the combat shotgun is still mainly a modified sporting shotgun. I know there are a few mag-fed auto‘s out there and they‘re nice, yet they hold on average 5-10 rds of 12 gauge (SPAS-15 & USAS-12 respectively) The South African Striker is nice, but it‘s 12 rd cyclinder is not exactly easy to reload in a hurry. Possibly, but not the same as a magazine. Is it a matter of, if it ain‘t broke, don‘t fix? Or are there new designs on the horizon?

Also, what of those prototypes from a few years ago that played with flechette projectiles. Seem to recall an H&K-Olin variant which I believe was a bullpup design (I‘d have to look that up to be certain) and a S&W design which was over a meter in lenght and was accurate enough to hit a tree @ 1 km (and blast huge chuncks of it in the process).

Any news on these?

 

[Redeye]

It‘s a combination of "if it ain‘t broke don‘t fix it" and "we don‘t really need high-tech shotguns for the small amount of use they get" I suspect.

Their limited application makes them very low on the list of priorities of a very cash-strapped CF.

 

[OLD SCHOOL]

Even in a cash rich enviornment, a Rem. 870 is all you need for any job. Fancy never works in the field. MP-5,870 and sig 9mm make great calling cards.

 

[Enzo]

I wasn‘t thinking of this as a possibility for the CF, just wondering if any new development on the subject had surfaced as of late.

You know, new toys to play with, etc...

 

[Xorlarrin]

The remington light rail mounted shotgun is a good weapon for the M4-C8 as you can mount it under the barrel of the the weapon on the rails

 

[Enzo]

I‘ve seen variations of that before, to what end? Pick a flavour. As for the "good for opening doors" argument, so is a M203.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Martial Artist...i didn‘t know REemington made a shotgun for that purpose...I knew Cienar and KAC did....do you know what the model number is?

 

[Jarnhamar]

Having a shotgun under a rifle seems like a bit of a waste considering the weight of the shotgun and weight of it‘s ammo

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Not really since the most likely purpose of it is to breach doors. Having a mated assault rifle or carbine with a shotgun cuts down on wieght more then having somone carry both a shotgun and rifle/carbine and both ammo types.

 

[Slim]

Just some thoughts on some of the posts.
-The SPAS12 is a great weapon. Italian I think...The worlds various militaries have looked at it and decided that it‘s too delicate for field use and too many parts when stripped down.

Apparently the flechette round is not quite the man-stopper that everyone thinks it is. SSG, or .000 buck, is probably still the best "counter-ambush" round!

I think the CF has some Rem 870‘s kicking around although I never saw any.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Apparently the engineers have some:
http://media.militaryphotos.net/photos/albums/allied_canada/f_cdn02.jpg
and the Naval Boarding Parties use it as well.

 

[East Side Soprano]

That carbine/shotgun combination is a weapon developed by the United States for their SEALs (or SF, not sure but I think its SEALs), it‘s called the M4 MasterKey. An M4(A1) carbine, C8 in Canadian terms, with a modified Remington 870 mounted on a rail beneath the barrel.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

You sure its a modified Remington 870 and not an Ithacha Model 37?

 

[East Side Soprano]

I‘m pretty sure it is the 870, but perhaps versions with the Ithaca 37 have been used.

 

[babicma]

I was wondering to what extent does the CF employ shotguns?

I know it might not be well suited in the field but I was wondering about jungle or FIBUA environments.

Although the CF might not like the look or manufacturer of the Saiga I think these shotguns could be usefull.

1. http://club.guns.ru/eng/saiga12.htm

2. Spetznaz version: http://www.saiga-12.com/Photo_Gallery.htm

 

[Infanteer]

We had shotguns in the company weapons cage overseas. I remember my section commander requisitoned a couple for a cordon-and-search op on some bad guys, he was denied for fear of the "aggressive and escalatory nature of the weapon." (So we went in with rifles and LMGs, go figure)

They looked to be the standard pump action twelve gauge. Nothing as fancy as that Saiga.

 

[babicma]

Originally posted by Infanteer:
[qb] he was denied for fear of the "aggressive and escalatory nature of the weapon."
[/qb]

Boy o Boy!

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

The navy uses the Remington 870 with folding stock for boarding ops in conjunction with the MP5 and P225.

 

[Pikache]

Apparently there is fletchette rounds for M203 which could be used in substitute for shotgun.

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

Bet that would hurt. Hope it arms before 50m though.