SIC Scale of Issue/Entitlements (merged)

[jpjohnsn]

Is there any reason why the same thing could not be accomplished through the same means most Cbt Arms NCOs and WOs use when they are assessing candidates' abilities to move dismounted across a piece of terrain - a small pack or personally purchased Blackhawk backpack? Sorry, but I cannot for one second think of one single reason that a CIC officer or any cadet (and please do not use the term NCO without cadet in front of it when speaking of your cadets - the soldiers, sailors and airmen/women of the CAF have earned that designation) would require a piece of load carriage equipment designed solely for a soldier in combat to have quick and easy access to those items needed to inflict harm on the enemy, aside from some type of PD training the CIC officer may be participating in with a RegF or PRes field unit.

I have no doubt CIC officers and staff cadets require the ability to have water and other goodies on-hand when in "the field" with their cadets, however entitlements are there so that the finite resources the CF have are properly managed and the right people get the right tools to do the jobs required of them. Want a tacvest issued? Component Transfer to a MOC that requires it and the rest of the skillsets and headaches that go with it. Don't want all that? There are all kinds of aftermarket places to buy good quality load carriage equipment that you don't need an entitlement to purchase.

You can keep "comfortable", have all the goodies you need and set the example to the younger folks without making more out of your role than what it is  :2c:

Got that out of your system now?  Good.  The tac vest issue has been addressed earlier.  If someone in the CIC was issued one, they shouldn't have.  The vast majority of us in that branch would agree on that point.  On the other hand, other than looking foolish, if they managed to acquire one (or 82 pattern kit or whatever) through a surplus store, what's it to you?  Unless it was stolen and fenced through the store, no one in the system is being deprived.

Most kit cadets are issued for FTXs are drawn from a separate cadet stores and is mostly obsolete or suplused kit that was transferred to the CCO for issue to the cadets.  Again, no one in the CF is going without because of cadets being issued a ruck or a web belt for the weekend.

Oh, and by the way, NCO is a definition, not an honorific.  The cadet system has used NCO (without the cadet modifier) officially since the program begin.  If that's not to your liking, that's on you, not them. 

 

[myself.only]

Want a tacvest issued? Component Transfer to a MOC that requires it and the rest of the skillsets and headaches that go with it. Don't want all that? There are all kinds of aftermarket places to buy good quality load carriage equipment that you don't need an entitlement to purchase.

Whoa. As you can see from my posts I was discussing whether an item could be put to use.  I was not arguing with entitlement.
As for the CAF small pack, I don't believe I'm entitled to one of those either.

 

[Eye In The Sky]

Or you could try a backpack?

Especially if you shelled out your own $$ for webbing.  I'd go to Ebay or MEC and get something I can use 'civie side' that doesn't scream "Army/Navy Surplus" but still has a field'ish look to it.  I paid about $60 for the daypack I use from MEC (40L) that is years old and still goin' strong.

 

[392]

As for the CAF small pack, I don't believe I'm entitled to one of those either.

Most likely not, however as EITS pointed out, a good quality backpack can go a long way. Most of them are of higher quality and more comfortable than what the CF issues anyways.

 

[my72jeep]

In 20+ years with Cadets I have worn out 3 day packs (35l) 1 of them MEC. in that time I have never seen a set of 82 webbing become completely NS. but the point is the 82 pattern webbing is now in the hands of the Cadet program live with it.
Funny thing I've had Reg and Res Senor NCO's begging me to acquire them a 64 pattern ruck from cadet stores, but wine when they see CIC with newer kit. We in the CIC seem to be the Bastard Step brother no one wants, we cant have the new shiny things, not that we need most of them, and now people get upset seeing us with the old obsolete kit.

 

[Jarnhamar]

In 20+ years with Cadets I have worn out 3 day packs (35l) 1 of them MEC. in that time I have never seen a set of 82 webbing become completely NS. but the point is the 82 pattern webbing is now in the hands of the Cadet program live with it.
Funny thing I've had Reg and Res Senor NCO's begging me to acquire them a 64 pattern ruck from cadet stores, but wine when they see CIC with newer kit. We in the CIC seem to be the Bastard Step brother no one wants, we cant have the new shiny things, not that we need most of them, and now people get upset seeing us with the old obsolete kit.

Not that it matters but I'm personally of the belief that CF issue Cadpat uniforms should go to serving soldiers and CIC members should wear the same uniform as the cadets they supervise.

I mentioned the load bearing vest because

1. I felt that the "where am I going to store my things?" argument was a pretty poor justification; and
2. it bordered on members of the cadets trying to look like soldiers for the LFC. Which while it doesn't really effect me I thought it would go against the whole child-soldiers image that cadets try to avoid.

I'm told that cadets are issued this stuff on their ex. i don't agree with it like I don't agree with CIC wearing cadpat but that's not my decision to make. It's a moot point.


If memory serves me CIC officers had cadpat before members of my reserve unit had it.
I'm pretty sure that some (regular caveat, not all) CIC officers will have the improved combat uniform before I or my section will.


You should buy a fanny pack for the Senior NCOs that whine.

 

[OldSolduer]

My  :2c:

If your cadets are on parade in their version of DEU, then the CIC officers should be in DEU.

I see the CIC taking the easy way out some of the time.

 

[my72jeep]

My  :2c:

If your cadets are on parade in their version of DEU, then the CIC officers should be in DEU.

I see the CIC taking the easy way out some of the time.

Bingo

 

[Northalbertan]

Not that it matters but I'm personally of the belief that CF issue Cadpat uniforms should go to serving soldiers and CIC members should wear the same uniform as the cadets they supervise.

I mentioned the load bearing vest because

1. I felt that the "where am I going to store my things?" argument was a pretty poor justification; and
2. it bordered on members of the cadets trying to look like soldiers for the LFC. Which while it doesn't really effect me I thought it would go against the whole child-soldiers image that cadets try to avoid.

I'm told that cadets are issued this stuff on their ex. i don't agree with it like I don't agree with CIC wearing cadpat but that's not my decision to make. It's a moot point.


If memory serves me CIC officers had cadpat before members of my reserve unit had it.
I'm pretty sure that some (regular caveat, not all) CIC officers will have the improved combat uniform before I or my section will.


You should buy a fanny pack for the Senior NCOs that whine.

Yes they are getting some of the ICUs.  They wear what they are issued, same as everyone else.  They are a member of the SAME military you are, different trade, different component, but same military.  You serve in your way, we serve in ours.  If the CAF did not want CIC as part of the military they wouldn't be.  Just my opinion, not that it matters.

 

[armyvern]

...
Well, I cannot agree with you more of this point.  And I hate to see those bad apples then described as how "most CIC officers" are.
Well, hopefully that stigma can goad those of us who know better into sorting out the bad apples and those noobs who might emulate them.

Would you get over it already??

My comment was about "most CIC Officers" who came in to clothing stores during our rollout of cadpat.  Most of them "who came in".  I fully realize that 99% of CIC did not come in. Context:  realize that it exists. I was born on Oct 3rd, not f'n yesterday. 

I'm sorry that I apparently hurt your 'lil feelings so much that you are still having issues about it.  :

 

[armyvern]

...

If memory serves me CIC officers had cadpat before members of my reserve unit had it.
I'm pretty sure that some (regular caveat, not all) CIC officers will have the improved combat uniform before I or my section will.
...

They get issued whatever their supporting clothing outlet has in stock ... just like all other CF members.

Kind of like how Technoviking can't get the new cadpat issued yet because Gagetown has no stock left/in, while it's all some locations have in stock now.

 

[Lightguns]

In 20+ years with Cadets I have worn out 3 day packs (35l) 1 of them MEC. in that time I have never seen a set of 82 webbing become completely NS. but the point is the 82 pattern webbing is now in the hands of the Cadet program live with it.
Funny thing I've had Reg and Res Senor NCO's begging me to acquire them a 64 pattern ruck from cadet stores, but wine when they see CIC with newer kit. We in the CIC seem to be the ******* Step brother no one wants, we cant have the new shiny things, not that we need most of them, and now people get upset seeing us with the old obsolete kit.

Edited due the post button being prematurely hit.....

You forgot to mention the whole "same commission as the regular officers" issue that bugs alot of folks And the "stealing the army trucks during army summer training" issue ;D

 

[Journeyman]

I'm sorry that I apparently hurt your 'lil feelings so much that you are still having issues about it.  :

  If only you could work through your shyness somehow.  op:

 

[my72jeep]

You forgot to mention the whole "same commission as the regular officers" issue that bugs alot of folks And the "stealing the army trucks during army summer training" issue ;D

The whole Queens Commission is a moot point once issued its hard to revoke. But what army trucks, All I've seen at camp lately(Blackdown) last 5 years are rentals. Oh yeah they gave us 4 milcots  4 years back. only because they were sick of the field damage on the rentals.

 

[armyvern]

  If only you could work through your shyness somehow.  op:

Impossible as I'm impossibly shy.

 

[armyvern]

The whole Queens Commission is a moot point once issued its hard to revoke. But what army trucks, All I've seen at camp lately(Blackdown) last 5 years are rentals. Oh yeah they gave us 4 milcots  4 years back. only because they were sick of the field damage on the rentals.

Well, if you went near Blackdown right now ... you'd find a whole bunch of our regiment's vehicles there as part of our EX that you could attempt to steal.  Beware of bitchy red-headed MWOs you may find slinking about though ... 

 

[my72jeep]

Well, if you went near Blackdown right now ... you'd find a whole bunch of our regiment's vehicles there as part of our EX that you could attempt to steal.  Beware of bitchy red-headed MWOs you may find slinking about though ... 

Aw Vern you have a soft spot for Cadets not allways the CIC but the cadets. And I have never stolen a army truck an Iltis maybe.
Ps your not Bitchy just tired.

 

[Rutiger]

Hey Guys. 

So I know this thread is pretty old, but I didn't think it to be appropriate to start a new thread for the same topic.

I'm a relatively new OCdt, and I am currently going through the stage of getting uniforms issued.  There was clothing Docs in the attestment package, and they did have information on them to let Clothing Stores know of my entitlelment as CIC Army.  When I look at the docs, the information may as well be in greek as I don't know what the information (obviously intended for clothing Stores Pers) means.  There was no Itemized list for my kit, so, I have no idea what I should have, what I shouldn't have, and what I still need to come in for.  As clothing stores is away from a major base, it is taking some time to get it all together, and the folks in stores are great to deal with, I just feel in the dark.

Is there somewhere I can find an itemized list of kit I should have?  With the move from Cadetnet to the Sharepoint system we have now, I can't find anything.

Thanks.

 

[my72jeep]

Your HQ should have a supply person, call and speak to them.

 

[Rutiger]

Thanks. 

I assume you mean my RCSU.