SINKEX Rim of the Pacific 2016

[tomahawk6]

Video of a SINKEX in the Pacific,where the USN and allies attacked the former USS Thach,an Oliver Perry class frigate.It took 12 hours to sink her.Today the former USS Crommelin,Thach's sister ship will be the target.Its bitter sweet.

http://www.popularmechanics.com/military/navy-ships/a21887/us-navy-allies-frigate-fire-exercise/

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

Its bitter sweet.

Yes, bitter sweet, but an honourable end for a patriot, and much more dignified than just being towed to the breakers.

Farewell Thatch. And tank you for your service. 

 

[FSTO]

I wonder how the LCS (both types) would have handled the torpedo hit that THATCH took? Though out of commission, she was still floating.

 

[tomahawk6]

Gentlemen,the ship was the USS Thach.
Named after Admiral Thach creator of the Thach Weave.


http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/ffg43/Pages/Namesake.aspx#.V442Y1RtNQc

The Saskatoon was present for part of the exercise.
http://www.public.navy.mil/surfor/nsmwdc/Pages/SMWDC-RIMPAC-2016.aspx#.V443lFRtNQc

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I don't know about the LCS, but for Thach, there are three points to make for that torpedo hit.

First, she was clearly brought to the SINKEX in a fully battened down state - with every hatch and watertight door close and all opening closed. So maximum watertightness achieved.

Second, that torpedo hit, in actual service, would have detonated the forward magazine, which would have been full of missiles. Not a good thing and a likely kill.

Third, considering the target is not moving or putting up a fight, that was a poor torpedo shot. You aim for a centre of mass and under the hull detonation for your torpedo. The idea is to break the ship's back. Here, they missed on both count by actually hitting the hull and quite forward on the bow on top of that.

 

[tomahawk6]

More about the Canadian participation in RIMPAC 2016.

http://www.forces.gc.ca/en/operations-exercises/rimpac.page

This is the 25th iteration of this exercise, which is held every two years. The Canadian Armed Forces (CAF) has deployed:

A maritime component comprising four ships (HMCS Calgary, HMCS Vancouver, HMCS Saskatoon and HMCS Yellowknife), a Royal Canadian Navy (RCN) team of clearance divers, and a forward logistics team;
A land component comprising an infantry company from the Second Battalion, Royal 22e Regiment, based out of Valcartier, Quebec;
An air task force comprising several aircraft (eight CF-188 Hornets, one CC-130 Hercules, one CC-150 Polaris and one CP-140 Aurora), a maritime helicopter detachment, and a tactical aviation detachment with four CH-146 Griffons and two CH-147 Chinooks; and
More than 1,500 sailors, soldiers, airmen and airwomen and several command, staff and support personnel.

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

So if I get this correctly, our Minister of Defence and friendly current government are trying to convince us at home that we have a capability gap in our fast air and we currently don't have enough CF-188 to meet our NATO and NORAD missions ... but we can spare 8 of them to go on an EX in the middle of the Pacific.

Riiiight!

 

[Halifax Tar]

I think that torpedo hit is probably a kill or incapacitation at the least.  The dramatic shock and movements would have turned just about everyone on board into a casualty and I have no doubt your mse and cse systems are all gone for good.  Even if she stays afloat she's a wreck and a survival stations evolution at that point.

 

[FSTO]

Apologies for spelling Thach the name wrong.

When we sank HURON the tall foreheads decided to cut out every watertight door and hatch. It was amazing she stayed afloat as long as she did!

 

[jollyjacktar]

I think that torpedo hit is probably a kill or incapacitation at the least.  The dramatic shock and movements would have turned just about everyone on board into a casualty and I have no doubt your mse and cse systems are all gone for good.  Even if she stays afloat she's a wreck and a survival stations evolution at that point.

Just looking at the gif that plays over and over.  I observed the amount movement aft of the hangar on the flight deck to fantail.  That was a serious amount of whip and folks would have been flying like missiles into the deckheads/bulkeads for starters.  I imagine the firemain and associated ringmains for seawater cooling of systems, chilled water etc would have been a mess and not operational.  She would have been in big trouble for the surviving damage control parties to work on. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

I am not sure Halifax Tar and Jollyjacktar:

The OHPs were tough little buggers.

Stark took two Exocet hits in the main hull under the bridge while serving in the Gulf of Oman. One failed to explode but started a fuel fire, the second one exploded in the same mess deck. The crew managed to put the fires out, pump the compartments, correct the serious list she had developed, make emergency repairs an actually drive her back to the US without any assistance. She went on to serve for quite a while after repairs.

Later, the Roberts hit a mine amidship in the engine room, also in the Gulf. Broke her back, ripped both gas turbines from their beds, created a 15 feet opening in the side of the ship (in the Engine Room as I said). Crew brought fires under control again, managed enough repairs to keep her from sinking through pumping, were very creative in holding the superstructure together by strapping it with steel wires, and managed to extricate themselves from the minefield by using the auxiliary power units (we would call those thrusters nowadays). Throughout, the combat and weapons systems were kept fully functional. She was brought back to the US by heavy lift ship, repaired and served for many years thereafter.

Also, the OHP had an interesting little twist: just forward of the bridge (so between the crewed portion of the ship and the missiles magazines), they had an actual reinforced crash bulkhead because the engineers that designed them for close escort had noted that the single most common incidents involving close escort ships (which the OHPs were) during WWII and up to the Korean war  were night time collisions bow first with the large ships they were meant to escort.  :nod:

 

[jollyjacktar]

I am not sure Halifax Tar and Jollyjacktar:

The OHPs were tough little buggers.

Stark took two Exocet hits in the main hull under the bridge while serving in the Gulf of Oman. One failed to explode but started a fuel fire, the second one exploded in the same mess deck. The crew managed to put the fires out, pump the compartments, correct the serious list she had developed, make emergency repairs an actually drive her back to the US without any assistance. She went on to serve for quite a while after repairs.

Later, the Roberts hit a mine amidship in the engine room, also in the Gulf. Broke her back, ripped both gas turbines from their beds, created a 15 feet opening in the side of the ship (in the Engine Room as I said). Crew brought fires under control again, managed enough repairs to keep her from sinking through pumping, were very creative in holding the superstructure together by strapping it with steel wires, and managed to extricate themselves from the minefield by using the auxiliary power units (we would call those thrusters nowadays). Throughout, the combat and weapons systems were kept fully functional. She was brought back to the US by heavy lift ship, repaired and served for many years thereafter.

Also, the OHP had an interesting little twist: just forward of the bridge (so between the crewed portion of the ship and the missiles magazines), they had an actual reinforced crash bulkhead because the engineers that designed them for close escort had noted that the single most common incidents involving close escort ships (which the OHPs were) during WWII and up to the Korean war  were night time collisions bow first with the large ships they were meant to escort.  :nod:

True enough, the Samuel B. Roberts, was used at the DCTF Kootenay as a good example of what's possible.  I am not so sure in the gif, however, how well the meat interfaces would have fared, especially in the secondary zones aft.  She may have got off her knees and staggered home from that punch in the face, but it would have taken her a little effort.  We're one of the weaker links in the shock survivability chain, I don't know how many members of the after section base would have remained effective after the hit, never mind the forward section base.

 

[Bearpaw]

I am wondering if the designers of the CSC are mitigating the shock of these torpedo detonations by using simple cheap carlike shock-absorbers for the bunks and seating onboard?

It is a fairly simple excercise in engineering to calculate the specific shock of a 400 Kg detonation of RDX or HMX at the optimal depth given that you know the mass of the ship.  It is a lot easier to mitigate this kind of shock than that for an LAV or Leo II from an IED of 50kg.

Bearpaw

 

[Halifax Tar]

Just looking at the gif that plays over and over.  I observed the amount movement aft of the hangar on the flight deck to fantail.  That was a serious amount of whip and folks would have been flying like missiles into the deckheads/bulkeads for starters.  I imagine the firemain and associated ringmains for seawater cooling of systems, chilled water etc would have been a mess and not operational.  She would have been in big trouble for the surviving damage control parties to work on.

I realate her to a CPF taking that torp hit in the same spot.  The the people in/on the bridge, chart room, OPs room, Fwd section base, Fwd CCT and the ERT org leadership would all be in the imediate vacinity and if not killed out right they are out of the fight for good.

While you may keep the CPF afloat, I highly doubt she could move and I know she could not fight with anything other than the quaterdeck .50cals, if those gun crews werent whipped into the drink from the blast.

Missiles are damage control and torpedos are survial stantions.  This is the current DC mantra we are running.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I realate her to a CPF taking that torp hit in the same spot.  The the people in/on the bridge, chart room, OPs room, Fwd section base, Fwd CCT and the ERT org leadership would all be in the imediate vacinity and if not killed out right they are out of the fight for good.

While you may keep the CPF afloat, I highly doubt she could move and I know she could not fight with anything other than the quaterdeck .50cals, if those gun crews werent whipped into the drink from the blast.

Missiles are damage control and torpedos are survial stantions.  This is the current DC mantra we are running.

I have watched some video on youtube of the shoot.  It was annoying as the film presented was not in sequence of hits and looped quite a bit.  What really caught my attention was the flight deck and hangar.  "Something" hit her hard there that peeled up the forward end of the flightdeck and bootfucked the hangar entrance area as well.  A hit like that on a CPF would have taken out both SBT 2 and 3.  The shafts would also be affected I have no doubt and possibly the glans ruptured as well.  A CPF wouldn't be going anywhere under her own steam after that hit. IMO

 

[Halifax Tar]

I have watched some video on youtube of the shoot.  It was annoying as the film presented was not in sequence of hits and looped quite a bit.  What really caught my attention was the flight deck and hangar.  "Something" hit her hard there that peeled up the forward end of the flightdeck and bootfucked the hangar entrance area as well.  A hit like that on a CPF would have taken out both SBT 2 and 3.  The shafts would also be affected I have no doubt and possibly the glans ruptured as well.  A CPF wouldn't be going anywhere under her own steam after that hit. IMO

Agreed, two things are for sure, life on that ship would have just altered dramatically and I don't wanna be on board when we get hit by a torp...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Agreed, two things are for sure, life on that ship would have just altered dramatically and I don't wanna be on board when we get hit by a torp...

Agreed.  But whatever the MCDV threw at it, I don't want a part of it.  They mask their killing powers well. 

 

[Oldgateboatdriver]

The damage to the flight deck looks consistent with a pair of H.E. five inch shells hitting from a ballistic flight (i.e. coming in from high down onto the deck at a 60 degree angle) from astern and hitting first in the hangar door base and then, a bit shorter right through the flight deck at the front quarter mark of it.

Missiles and torpedoes cause lots of damage, but you still have to respect the power of the guns. If you look at the holes on the side of the hull under the bridge, they look innocuous enough, but if they are HE rounds, the internal damage in the compartments where they penetrated would be horrendous.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I don't that sinkex involved guns. The flight deck buckling looks like it was caused by a GBU12 laser guided bomb which penetrated from a steep angle.

The holes in the side of the ship look like they are from Harpoon.  I have a hard time believing that they were firing war shots, given that I have seen previous video of what a Harpoon will do to a ship and that damage seems pretty minimal.

Or maybe OHPs are really, really tough buggers.

 

[jollyjacktar]

I don't that sinkex involved guns. The flight deck buckling looks like it was caused by a GBU12 laser guided bomb which penetrated from a steep angle.

The holes in the side of the ship look like they are from Harpoon.  I have a hard time believing that they were firing war shots, given that I have seen previous video of what a Harpoon will do to a ship and that damage seems pretty minimal.

Or maybe OHPs are really, really tough buggers.

In the video I watched, the hits in the side midships/bridge area, were from Harpoons.  I know she was hit by the GBU12, but they don't show that strike.  I was very disappointed they didn't show it.  Just looking at the bow and the deformation of the hull from the torpedo and she's still bobbing along fairly happy (albeit with a 2-3% starboard list near the end of the close up shots) speaks volumes of the quality of the design for the OHP. 

To steal from Betty White:  they should have named the OHP's "Vaginas, because those things can really take a pounding."  ;D