Sit-Ups

[jacksparrow]

Not sure what conflicting posts your talking about, but if you had taken the time to read the posts in this particular thread, you would have seen bms's post stating exactly what is expected for the CF Express test . His post was dated April 27, 2008....only the 4th posts from the top of the thread.

Time for you to settle down and take a deep breath in...I was far from "springing" out of control....hehehe

Are you always like this, or you are just making an extra effort for me? 

 

[fire_guy686]

Great post BMS.

I am doing the push ups one now, because well I just flat out suck at push ups. Maybe I'll give this one a whirl too.

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Maybe I am stating the obvious, but the CF/PSP sit-up is not solely working the abs (actually PSP has acknowledged this and recommend normal crunches when training) but is something that has to be done for the CF EXPRES test. When doing crunches (up to 30 degrees off the ground for shoulders), the abs are isolated in the exercise. When doing situps, past 30 degrees, the iliopsoas (hip flexors) kick in and help with the movement. These muscles are attached to the lower spine and the upper thigh bone and help in bringing the legs to the torso. Thus the difficulty in doing a proper situp when the feet are not held down by someone or by bar/couch etc.

Good resources to check out: Strength Training Anatomy and Legendary Abs II by Health for Life. (granted - we have to prepare for the EXPRES test as well, and have to train in a specific manner IOT succeed in the test, no matter how silly the test may be. SAID principle - specific adaptation to imposed demand.)

NOTE: I am not a medical practitioner or have a degree in kinesiology/phys ed. I simply like working out and I like to work out properly to make maximum gains while preventing injuries.

 

[MikeMacLeod]

Nice, this is really good information.

If you don't mind me adding

* Breathe - Exhale as you situp, inhale as you go down.
* Don't rest when in the down position (Try to keep the rhythm)

These are my own opinions based on how I have been taught, I try to work my core 5 times a week.
on top of crunches and sit-ups to work my abs, I usually do

* L-Sits - the way I do them is from hanging on a pull-up bar and moving your legs up so your body is shaped like an L. (Can also do them on a dip machine)
* Knees to elbows(unsure of the real name) - Using a pull-up bar you bring your knees to touch your elbows, this is also a lower back workout and because you are hanging you work your forearms (grip).

These are basic for Lower and upper abs, which will help to improve your core strength. I also modify those to work on my obliques (Cross overs)

 

[apache2001]

In addition to the helpful tips above: Focus and do your sit-ups slowly.    Do not cheat yourself just to get to the count you wanted. ;D

 

[Soldier1stTradesman2nd]

Also, when doing hanging leg/knee raises, make sure you stop (if your abs allow) when you cannot round your lower back (or pelvis) forward with the up-swing of the legs/knees. The lower back starts taking an incredible strain as soon as it arches backwards when raising the legs. And not sure if it has been mentioned here (but I see alot of people breaking this rule), but do all core exercises last (abs first, then lower back). You do not want to have the key stabilizing muscles around the spine to be fatigued when doing say, military presses. Conveniently, the EXPRES test has the sit-ups last.

 

[blacktriangle]

Just exhale on the way up and give' er. For those of you who know the 5th point of flight procedure (legs held 6inches off ground) hold that for as long as you can it feels nice on the core... 

 

[sm1lodon]

One way to increase the number of repetitions, or speed thereof, is to increase the overall peak capability of a muscle.

If you do one of your sets of situps during the week with a dumbell behind your head, start light, say with 5-10 lbs, just do as many as you can in one set and that is all, then it will build overall abdominal mass, which will make it so that percentage of overall muscle fibre recruitment per situp is reduced. One way to make an activity easier or to excel more at it is to keep the effort needed far from the peak capability of that particular movement by expanding your peak capability far beyond your present capability for one repetition.

In short, if you can do ten situps with a 65 lb dumbell behind your head, you will have an easier go of it doing 60 with the (relatively fluffy) weight of only your body.

Similarly, for aerobic conditioning, doing high-intensity work such as wind sprints to increase the peak capacity of your cardiorespiratory system will make it so that they effort spent to do lower-intensity longer-duration work will be decreased, leading to increased performance. 100m sprints at full speed are great for finding how good the cardiorespiratory system is on peak output.

When I was deadlifting 520 lbs for one rep, doing 20 reps with 225 was possible. Not fun or easy, but possible. Increase your peak capabilities, and you increase the facility with which you do your lower-intensity, longer-duration work.

If you want to become more proficient at climbing a rope, strap on some weight, and go as high as you can. After a few weeks, strap on some more weight, and so on. When it comes time to climb the rope unhindered, you will find that it is far easier.

Peak capacity is one of the most under-utilized and overlooked part of endurance training.

You do not replace your high-rep, lower-intensity work with this. You augment it.

Since this is resistance training designed to increase muscle mass/density a little bit, get some protein every 2-4 hours while you are awake, as your body cannot store protein, but needs it right when a muscle is being rebuilt. Not a LOT of protein, but a small dose on a more regular basis is more easily and efficiently utilized by your body than a five-pound steak in the morning, most of which will be converted to fat or glycogen, and the excess nitrogen urinated away.

 

[The Dunnminator]

One way to increase the number of repetitions, or speed thereof, is to increase the overall peak capability of a muscle.

If you do one of your sets of situps during the week with a dumbell behind your head, start light, say with 5-10 lbs, just do as many as you can in one set and that is all, then it will build overall abdominal mass, which will make it so that percentage of overall muscle fibre recruitment per situp is reduced. One way to make an activity easier or to excel more at it is to keep the effort needed far from the peak capability of that particular movement by expanding your peak capability far beyond your present capability for one repetition.

In short, if you can do ten situps with a 65 lb dumbell behind your head, you will have an easier go of it doing 60 with the (relatively fluffy) weight of only your body.

Similarly, for aerobic conditioning, doing high-intensity work such as wind sprints to increase the peak capacity of your cardiorespiratory system will make it so that they effort spent to do lower-intensity longer-duration work will be decreased, leading to increased performance. 100m sprints at full speed are great for finding how good the cardiorespiratory system is on peak output.

When I was deadlifting 520 lbs for one rep, doing 20 reps with 225 was possible. Not fun or easy, but possible. Increase your peak capabilities, and you increase the facility with which you do your lower-intensity, longer-duration work.

If you want to become more proficient at climbing a rope, strap on some weight, and go as high as you can. After a few weeks, strap on some more weight, and so on. When it comes time to climb the rope unhindered, you will find that it is far easier.

Peak capacity is one of the most under-utilized and overlooked part of endurance training.

You do not replace your high-rep, lower-intensity work with this. You augment it.

Since this is resistance training designed to increase muscle mass/density a little bit, get some protein every 2-4 hours while you are awake, as your body cannot store protein, but needs it right when a muscle is being rebuilt. Not a LOT of protein, but a small dose on a more regular basis is more easily and efficiently utilized by your body than a five-pound steak in the morning, most of which will be converted to fat or glycogen, and the excess nitrogen urinated away.

I would't recommend doing situps with a dumbell beacuse of the risk of injury, I would recommend more doing them in mass using different positions but always with proper technique.

 

[sm1lodon]

Risk of injury? I've been doing them that way for 21 years.

I would heartily recommend them due to a lack of risk of injury.  ;D

 

[Marshall]

Risk of injury? I've been doing them that way for 21 years.

I would heartily recommend them due to a lack of risk of injury.  ;D

It has been said to be risky, you may not feel it now but maybe in your later years
It DOES help, no doubt about it.. but do not load yourself..

 

[The Dunnminator]

Risk of injury? I've been doing them that way for 21 years.

I would heartily recommend them due to a lack of risk of injury.  ;D

I said risk, not guarantee of injury. This isn't just my opinion though, I already asked my professors at the university (I study in Kinesiology) about situps and the advice they gave me was basically not to do any situps but to do different types of crunches (ex crunches on the ground, on a stability ball, doing them by touching the knee to the opposite elbow etc...). The reason for this is that while doing situps the movement is mostly accomplished by the muscles around the hips to femur articulation (mostly the iliopsoas) and during crunches it is mostly the abdominal muscles that do the work. However, it is easy to cheat while doing the crunches movement, for them to be effective, you have to do them with the proper technique.

 

[Highlander60]

I hate sit-ups, I often wonder why they are still part of the express test as they have potential to injure your back. I can still do over 40 during my express test but I never practice them throughout the year because of potential injury to my back. I do leg lifts and crunches to build core strength.

 

[sm1lodon]

I said risk, not guarantee of injury. This isn't just my opinion though, I already asked my professors at the university (I study in Kinesiology) about situps and the advice they gave me was basically not to do any situps but to do different types of crunches (ex crunches on the ground, on a stability ball, doing them by touching the knee to the opposite elbow etc...). The reason for this is that while doing situps the movement is mostly accomplished by the muscles around the hips to femur articulation (mostly the iliopsoas) and during crunches it is mostly the abdominal muscles that do the work. However, it is easy to cheat while doing the crunches movement, for them to be effective, you have to do them with the proper technique.

Riiight. And how many of your professors have ever done one situp?

How many situps have you ever done? More than one?

The problem with your theorems and kinesiological research is this: The topic here is not crunches. It is how to be able to do more situps.

Not crunches. Situp. Situps are not crunches. This is not designed to give you sexy abs. This is designed to make you better at doing situps.

As it is the case that we are discussing situps, I want to remind you that though your professors, not one of whom has offered any proof whatsoever experimentally, that using a dumbell for situps is anything but beneficial, state that in theory it is a possibility that maybe someone could perhaps injure themself (I have no idea how) by doing a situp with a dumbell behind their neck, that I do them, have done them, never got within a Mac50 range of injuring myself therby.

Please, don't cling to theories when faced with real world realities. If you are under fire somewhere and your mates tell you to duck, will you instead stand tall, quoting your professors that said that enemies don't exist in that region?

In theory, they couldn't go to the moon, fly in a heavier-than-air craft, and I can't do deadlifts without a weight belt. For 25 years. All these theories are false.

If you were talking to the Wright brothers or someone who said that in theory, their plane should not have flown, who would you believe?

Consider your sources. Facts trump theories every single time. Your obvious great regard for your professors, who, from what you have said, offer no proof from their own personal experience that:
A) they have any knowledge of how to even DO a situp
B) they know how to increase situp capability
C) they have ever done ONE THING to increase any physical capability whatsoever
D) have ever even been in the same province as someone who was, at that time, to their knowledge, done a situp with a dumbell behind their head
should not prevent you from putting more stock in real-world experience.

Theories look great. Until reality makes them obviously ridiculous.

 

[sm1lodon]

It has been said to be risky, you may not feel it now but maybe in your later years
It DOES help, no doubt about it.. but do not load yourself..

In my later years? I'm 43. When is this mystery ailment supposed to show up? When I'm 150?

Regrettably, too many people have been scared away from resistance training by pencil-necked little theorists who have no real-world experience with it.

When I have been away from the gym for a while, I ramp up my weights slowly and carefully, always have.

The same goes for anyone who has never done much, if any, training: Ramp up slowly and don't worry if everyone in the gym gets together, holds hands, and laughs, in chorus of derision at your fluffy weights.

Heavy resistance trainging makes your body more capable of rapid recuperation, adds density to your bones, and overall health. Even senior citizens who engage in it have reversed the effects of aging, including flagging sex drive and osteoporosis.

For most people, their "knowledge" of resistance training (commonly called weight training, though you can get the restistance from compressed air cylinders, etc) consists of 100% ignorance and fear, 0% actual knowledge gathered from doing it correctly.

Don't miss out on the benefits of resistance training by hearsay. If people are too lazy to lift weights, fine, then just be honest and say you hate it.

You are in a far more likely position to injure your back while having sex with the man on top position, I don't note many people advising against sex because of that.

Truth: Most people just don't want to weight traing Smoke: "Oh, I'm afraid I will get injured."

 

[The Dunnminator]

Riiight. And how many of your professors have ever done one situp?

How many situps have you ever done? More than one?

The problem with your theorems and kinesiological research is this: The topic here is not crunches. It is how to be able to do more situps.

Not crunches. Situp. Situps are not crunches. This is not designed to give you sexy abs. This is designed to make you better at doing situps.

As it is the case that we are discussing situps, I want to remind you that though your professors, not one of whom has offered any proof whatsoever experimentally, that using a dumbell for situps is anything but beneficial, state that in theory it is a possibility that maybe someone could perhaps injure themself (I have no idea how) by doing a situp with a dumbell behind their neck, that I do them, have done them, never got within a Mac50 range of injuring myself therby.

Please, don't cling to theories when faced with real world realities. If you are under fire somewhere and your mates tell you to duck, will you instead stand tall, quoting your professors that said that enemies don't exist in that region?

In theory, they couldn't go to the moon, fly in a heavier-than-air craft, and I can't do deadlifts without a weight belt. For 25 years. All these theories are false.

If you were talking to the Wright brothers or someone who said that in theory, their plane should not have flown, who would you believe?

Consider your sources. Facts trump theories every single time. Your obvious great regard for your professors, who, from what you have said, offer no proof from their own personal experience that:
A) they have any knowledge of how to even DO a situp
B) they know how to increase situp capability
C) they have ever done ONE THING to increase any physical capability whatsoever
D) have ever even been in the same province as someone who was, at that time, to their knowledge, done a situp with a dumbell behind their head
should not prevent you from putting more stock in real-world experience.

Theories look great. Until reality makes them obviously ridiculous.

I am talking about facts, studies that were made by observing and experimenting in the real world. It is common knowledge that by doing situps with weight you risk injuries, not necessarily a major injury, it could be simply a tendinitis. I am not the one who said that it will affect you in your later years, I actually disagree with that and I think that if you haven't injured yourself at 43, it is probable you won't feel any effect of it even though you still might injure yourself one day.

I have said absolutely nothing regarding my background and the background of my professors. Do you think that peoples that studies in the science of sports and physical activities are nerds? Many of our classes are actually done on sports field and in the gym. You can question my credibility on this as much as you want but I made my share of situps in the various sports that I practiced and my time in the forces. Most of my professors are ex physical education teachers, kinesiologist and most of them were athletes, if they weren't credible, I wouldn't have asked them.

And about your little speech on how facts trumps theory, every single one of your examples was designed in theory first. The first spaceships were based on theory and science, and in theory scientists always knew that an heavier-than-air object could fly simply by looking at birds.

Of course you can deadlift without a weight belt but it is also proven that it puts you more at risk to injuries, back problems are one of the most common health problem there is, it is why it's heavily recommended. I am not saying that you will injure yourself doing situps with weight and yes it might help you improve your score but you can improve as much if not more your score in a safer way by properly doing crunches and leg raises instead. Of course once in a while, simply practicing the test will help you too and show you your progress.

I am actually a big supporter of weight training, I have been lifting weight for more than 6 years, it simply needs to be done properly. Too many peoples go to the gym, put more than what they can lift and injures themselves by cheating and doing the movement the wrong way. Weight training is great for anyone who does it seriously.

 

[sm1lodon]

Great.

In any case, if you want to be able to do something better, faster, easier, then you not only work on doing repetitions of it, but increasing your peak capabilities.

Which was my point.

 

[Infanteer]

You guys should have a sit-up competition....

 

[Marshall]

In my later years? I'm 43. When is this mystery ailment supposed to show up? When I'm 150?

Regrettably, too many people have been scared away from resistance training by pencil-necked little theorists who have no real-world experience with it.

When I have been away from the gym for a while, I ramp up my weights slowly and carefully, always have.

The same goes for anyone who has never done much, if any, training: Ramp up slowly and don't worry if everyone in the gym gets together, holds hands, and laughs, in chorus of derision at your fluffy weights.

Heavy resistance trainging makes your body more capable of rapid recuperation, adds density to your bones, and overall health. Even senior citizens who engage in it have reversed the effects of aging, including flagging sex drive and osteoporosis.

For most people, their "knowledge" of resistance training (commonly called weight training, though you can get the restistance from compressed air cylinders, etc) consists of 100% ignorance and fear, 0% actual knowledge gathered from doing it correctly.

Don't miss out on the benefits of resistance training by hearsay. If people are too lazy to lift weights, fine, then just be honest and say you hate it.

You are in a far more likely position to injure your back while having sex with the man on top position, I don't note many people advising against sex because of that.

Truth: Most people just don't want to weight traing Smoke: "Oh, I'm afraid I will get injured."

I kinda wish my neck was more pencil shaped, it has grown quite large due to a big head.  :blotto: I must admit I was the star bridger at the Wrestling tournaments during school though

I was not trying to start a rant thread, I realize resistance training can be rewarding but it CAN be dangerous. Ill drop the subject.

 

[The_Falcon]

I am talking about facts, studies that were made by observing and experimenting in the real world. It is common knowledge that by doing situps with weight you risk injuries, not necessarily a major injury, it could be simply a tendinitis. I am not the one who said that it will affect you in your later years, I actually disagree with that and I think that if you haven't injured yourself at 43, it is probable you won't feel any effect of it even though you still might injure yourself one day.

I have said absolutely nothing regarding my background and the background of my professors. Do you think that peoples that studies in the science of sports and physical activities are nerds? Many of our classes are actually done on sports field and in the gym. You can question my credibility on this as much as you want but I made my share of situps in the various sports that I practiced and my time in the forces. Most of my professors are ex physical education teachers, kinesiologist and most of them were athletes, if they weren't credible, I wouldn't have asked them.

And about your little speech on how facts trumps theory, every single one of your examples was designed in theory first. The first spaceships were based on theory and science, and in theory scientists always knew that an heavier-than-air object could fly simply by looking at birds.

Of course you can deadlift without a weight belt but it is also proven that it puts you more at risk to injuries, back problems are one of the most common health problem there is, it is why it's heavily recommended. I am not saying that you will injure yourself doing situps with weight and yes it might help you improve your score but you can improve as much if not more your score in a safer way by properly doing crunches and leg raises instead. Of course once in a while, simply practicing the test will help you too and show you your progress.

I am actually a big supporter of weight training, I have been lifting weight for more than 6 years, it simply needs to be done properly. Too many peoples go to the gym, put more than what they can lift and injures themselves by cheating and doing the movement the wrong way. Weight training is great for anyone who does it seriously.

I was willing to give you a chance until you mentioned the part I bolded.  (off topic, if you are using proper form, you can deadlift really heavy weight without the use of a belt, and it won't pose any risk of injury).  If anyone wants to REALLY improve, the strength in theirs abs and hipflexors, start doing ABMat and/or full ROM, GHD Situps.