Snr NCO's and WO's Relationship with Officers

[Horse_Soldier]

The French used (and I think still do) Sous-Officers as a title for their NCOS

"Sous-officier" is still in use, and not just by the French - but the french-speaking units of the Canadian Forces as well.  SrNCOs are "Sous-officiers supérieurs"

 

[Steel Badger]

Horse_Soldier

Thank you for the clarification......

(And the translations... I seem to be fighting a war of attrition with our second official language.)

 

[a_majoor]

(And the translations... I seem to be fighting a war of attrition with our second official language.)

Get with the program SB; we are a manoeuvrist force now! 

 

[Steel Badger]

Je ne suis pas patine!

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Well I guess you should have came up to C-2 and studied on all those night shifts, eh Monsier Badger?

 

[Steel Badger]

I might have learned the lingo from your esteemed Niner-Domestic.....

I did however..learn how to successfully sleep in a dorm office on C-2......lesse who was the Classified guy in-charge??

Whacko? Hughsy? LOL

 

[EODSpr]

Very interesting thread, when appointed to my first Troop WO position (I am an 043) and about to receive a brand new Tp Comd, my OC who I soldiered with as a Lt, took me aside and impressed upon me that the way in which I developed, guided and assisted this young officer may very well determine the successfulness of his career and effectiveness as a leader.

Now I know that the young Lt has a hand to play in this as well, he must be willing to learn, accept advice, trust his NCO's and WO to never knowingly steer him wrong. It is our responsibility to pass on our knowledge and experience and let the Lt make an informed and educated decision and lead the Tp/Pl. This Lt has a very short time as a Pl/Tp Comd to learn a lifetime of lessons before moving on to a non-Regt/BN position for a few years and then back to a field unit in an even higher office.

We all know that we have had good and bad WO's and Offr's and we seem to only remember the extremes. I have found that in the past in my branch that the majority of young Officers we receive are of the good variety. That being said as NCO's and WO's it is in our best interest to put our utmost effort into supporting and developing these young Lt's as they will more than likely be back to be our OC's and CO's.

On a further note it is important as a WO to ensure that with a struggling Tp/Pl Comd that we keep our Sgt's in check and curb the natural desire to cut the Lt loose as un-salvageable. This can be difficult but we must make every effort to support and develop them. More likely than not the OC will realize that that individual is not fit for command if he is really not. It is a great responsibility we hold as a WO as we are the first operational exposure to NCO's and WO's that these young Officers have.

Looks good in theory anyway ;D

Just a Thumperheads view.

Steve

 

[pbi]

Well posted E45. If only all of the players would remember that all of the time.

Cheers

 

[big bad john]

I have a photo posted on the members page of the photo board, it shows me and my Troop 2 days after the cease of hostilities in the South Atlantic.  I cherish it, because of the good likeness of the best mentor I've ever had, C/Sgt Wallace.  He taught me all I was supposed to know AND all I really needed to know.  We were together for 2 years prior to the photo.  As a Troop I put all of our successes, especially our great yomp across the main island.

W.O.2 Ian Wallace was killed in Belfast in 1989.  Every Officer should have an Ian Wallace, but it takes a good Snr/NCO and a willing Officer who knows when to talk and more importantly when to listen.

 

[Spr.Earl]

"W.O.2 Ian Wallace was killed in Belfast in 1989.   Every Officer should have an Ian Wallace, but it takes a good Snr/NCO and a willing Officer who knows when to talk and more importantly when to listen."

Thank you Sir for being honest,I wish more Officers were so forth right.

 

[ackland]

Good point John. That relationship has to be give and take. They both need to be open to each other. The Snr NCO has to pass on all his knowledge but he must also remember that he has to ensure the officer is looking after himself and his social welfare. The Snr NCO must act as some what of a big brother to the officer as they are usualy quite a bit younger. The officer has to give into the fact that jsut because they just got out of Officer school does not mean that they are an expert at soldiering.

 

[big bad john]

It was made very plain to me upon joining 45 Cdo that I knew nothing and that I had better take care of my Snr/NCO so's that he would take pity upon me.  Quite jolting.  My Grandfather made sure that I knew my first duty was to my objective and my second to my men.  If I didn't take care of the second well enough I could not complete the first.  Ian Wallace showed me how to do it. 

I'd really like to hear the experiences of other Officers in this regard.

 

[Michael OLeary]

The following is a short piece I wrote on NCOs a few years ago. It seems timely to add it to this thread, though it has equal applicability in the "professionalism" discussion:

24 Nov 2000

A Tribute to NCOs I Have Known

by: Capt M.M. O'Leary, CD, p.l.s.c., The RCR


      "Good young officers who become good old generals are made by good sergeants,
        ... a combination of ill-founded self-confidence, bluff and outstanding support and
      guidance from a series of unforgettable sergeants allowed me to create an impression
      of competence."  (i)

In my short career I have had the privilege of meeting and working with certain Non-Commissioned Officers who gave more than they ever received. Not long ago I was thinking of one of these NCOs, and mentally parroted that line "he was one of the best our Regiment has produced" when it occurred to me how wrong that sentiment was.

These men, dedicated to a fault, willing to make every sacrifice in contributing to the development of soldiers, younger NCOs and young officers, without any hint of personal political intrigue, they specifically, more so than the NCO corps as a whole, are the true backbone of our (or any) Army. Their readiness to provide guidance and even, when merited, critical analysis, was never given grudgingly. They knew in their hearts that the men and officers they assisted would provide a better military environment to following generations of their regiments' soldiers.

I remember, as a young Reserve Force Corporal many years ago, nights on the Armouries floor giving drill or weapons training to even younger soldiers. The presence of one such NCO on the balcony above, the first such that I knew, inspired me and my peers to be better. At first our motivation might have been the fear of being "corrected," later it evolved to a pride of being good enough to pass that silent muster without needing correction. Few of us could aspire to the level of professionalism demonstrated by that RSS Warrant Officer, but to be considered acceptable (even when that approval was indicated simply by receiving no comment) was a personal source of pride.

As a young officer I understood that these NCOs were always available to provide advice. They never gave any intimation that they might be attempting to direct my decisions. They understood, even better than I at the time, that their role was to advise, to guide, to assist in my development as a young officer. Their motivation was and remained as much my development as it was ensuring that I would be a better leader for the soldiers entrusted to their moral care, current and future.

As I matured I began to realize the significance of these men and their impact on our military society. They continually remained outside political intrigue. Their advancement was based on a purity of example and belief in their duty and responsibilities, never on hierarchical patronage. And those who claimed to be their patrons were merely attempting to stake an undeserved claim on their achievements - just because you're in front, doesn't mean you're the leader.

Some appointed leaders never achieve that degree of confidence such that these notable NCOs cease to spark some degree of fear or misgivings over one's own personal deficiencies. And as we develop, we know ourselves better, especially in which areas we never really make the grade. It is seldom our own supervisor we measure ourselves against, it is always the memory of these superbly professional NCOs, for their impact on us transcends time and place. Some we knew when they were Sergeants or Warrant Officers, others we remember as the best Company or Regimental Sergeant Majors we had the privilege of knowing.

We (i.e., the Regiment) did not "produce" these men, we simply provided a matrix within which their particular blend of personal and professional abilities flourished. Most importantly, they have contributed to the development of new generations of NCOs like themselves. But this occurred in no selective sense, for their guidance and example was offered to all with equal generosity, a special few simply possessed the right combination of attributes to form the next generation of NCOs like themselves - in deportment, in discipline, in soldierly values, they are the example.

I believe that the recent outcry over the role and position of the NCO within the Army is a cry for help. It is indicative of a realization that these noteworthy NCOs have become even more rare. It is a distress call acknowledging their loss and our weakening as an institution because of it. We need these men far more than they ever needed us and, without them, our sense of Army, and of Regiment, becomes ever more shallow.

We did not "produce" these NCOs. They, however, made us better.

        "Many of the most unique,
        Have faded into time,
        To some it's part of changing ways.
        To me, it's just a crime." (ii)

There is no need to name the NCOs I have known and consider to be part of this group. I believe they know who they are, but their own sense of professionalism would never admit of claiming such status. And those who would make such claims in doing so admit to no such merit.

Gentlemen, thank you. I hope that some day I live up to your expectations.


i Major- General Lewis MacKenzie, Peacekeeper, 1993
ii REGIMENTAL SERGEANT MAJOR, by Captain W.A. Leavey, The RCR, from the CFB Gagetown "Junior Officers' Journal" April 1976

 

[big bad john]

Excellent piece of writing!

 

[ackland]

Sounds like his NCO's were doing the job all of us Snr NCO's should strive to do. Reading that has inspired me to improve myself and my follow soldiers. Well done.

 

[Steel Badger]

Thx to Mike for his post.....

Just found another item for my required reading list for young NCOs.

 

[SHARP WO]

All I can say is WOW, since the inception of this thread many months ago, I would never have believed all the reading I am doing just to stay current.

SHARP WO