so i went in for the CF orientation today..

[Jackieskwong]

I've been debating for months on whether i should join or not, and today i finally decided to go to the weekly orientation. So today i went in they basically described to me about what they do and the basics. So i figured i could use the tutition reimbursment since i'm first year university right now. Anyways i was pretty confused. and since the recruiter had so many people to deal with i didn't want to ask too much questions. can anyone help me fill in the gaps?

-The one in mississauga is infantry, i was planning to go into logistics, but its all the way in the 25th division or whtever. Is it worth it for me to drive there every week just to go for 3 hours? are the payrate the same as an infantry officer and a logistic officer?

-If i decide its not worth the trouble to go to become logstics, do i still do the same training as an infantry when i applied for the officer position?

-Also i won't be living in mississauga anymore after april since i'm not going to live on campus anymore, does that mean i still have to travel from markham to sauga every week just for the 3 hour training?

-and the summer program, do i have to go away for 2 months during the summer? cause i was planning to take some summer school to fast track or to fill up any courses i failed

If any of my interpretation is wrong please correct me, i really want to experience this but i don't know if it is going to be worth it.

 

[Trinity]

ok

You're looking into the Toronto Scottish Regt.  in Mississauga..

they have a Downtown Toronto unit also, so if you joined there you could
also parade downtown with the other TSR regt.

If you want to be a log officer, then go log, suck up the drive
for the first year and then when you do move into the city for
school (if you do) then you're much closer to the 25 Svc Bn which
is where you would most likely train out of.

Long story short...  distance sucks.  If you want it bad enough
you'll do it.  However, don't join infantry just because its closer cause
if you're not happy with your trade.... you won't do well and the men
will see it immediately.

 

[George Wallace]

I've been debating for months on whether i should join or not, and today i finally decided to go to the weekly orientation. So today i went in they basically described to me about what they do and the basics. So i figured i could use the tutition reimbursment since i'm first year university right now. Anyways i was pretty confused. and since the recruiter had so many people to deal with i didn't want to ask too much questions. can anyone help me fill in the gaps?

-The one in mississauga is infantry, i was planning to go into logistics, but its all the way in the 25th division or whtever. Is it worth it for me to drive there every week just to go for 3 hours? are the payrate the same as an infantry officer and a logistic officer?

-If i decide its not worth the trouble to go to become logstics, do i still do the same training as an infantry when i applied for the officer position?

-Also i won't be living in mississauga anymore after april since i'm not going to live on campus anymore, does that mean i still have to travel from markham to sauga every week just for the 3 hour training?

-and the summer program, do i have to go away for 2 months during the summer? cause i was planning to take some summer school to fast track or to fill up any courses i failed

If any of my interpretation is wrong please correct me, i really want to experience this but i don't know if it is going to be worth it.

Where to start, where to start.  Perhaps get an education and become a very proficient and professional writer if you want to become an officer.  It is highly recommended that you be literate.  If you want to join the ranks, or become an officer, we have links here on this site that will explain how much you will be paid.  It is up to you to decide for yourself what kind of career in the Reserves you want.  If you want to be an Infanteer, join an Infantry Regiment.  If you want to be in Logistics, then join that Unit.  Like every job you will have in life, you will have to figure out how you will get to and from it.  It is you who manages your own Budget, you make those decisions.  

Do you place more priorities on going to school for the summer, or working for the summer to earn money to pay tuition?  If you want to take advantage of any Education Allowance, you will have to submit a plan and request for it, and then pass all those subjects.  You will not be paid in advance, so that you can party it all away.

It is up to you whether or not you should join the Reserves, in any rank, and become a contributor or not.  It is not in any way to be looked on as a free ride or a form of welfare.  

Your decision.

 

[Command-Sense-Act 105]

x

 

[Remius]

I've noticed this trend about knocking people who join for the money or the free tuition.  I used to have the same attitude because I joined for different reasons.  But in the end who cares why people joined as long as they are effective soldiers and commit to the job they signed on to do.  If this guys wants to join the reserves to help pay for school but ends up being  a good officer then I don't give a rats *** why he joined.  Some join for money, some for adventure, some out of a sense of duty and some because they really have nothing else to fall back on.  And for some it's a litlle bit of everything.

My advice to you: Join for whatever reason you want.  Just make sure you commit and see it through.

 

[Shamrock]

1.  a) Only you can decide if it's worth it for you to drive it for three hours plus exercises & other duties.
     b) For GSO's, pay rates are according to rank and not MOC; Log O and Infantry O are GSO's.1

2.  BOTP is universal throughout the CF (perhaps not between Res and Reg, though).  CAP, the common army phase, is a requirement of all land officers.  Beyond that, you're DP training will be different between Log O and Infantry O.

3.  Reserve units allow occupational and regimental transfers and some may allow temporary attachments.  As you're hoping to be an officer, there may not be positions available at the gaining unit, so you may not be able to do this.  Another alternative is excused drill and training, where you are permitted a period of same.  There are drawbacks to this.

4.  Your training is on a "voluntary" basis; however, course lengths are not negotiable.  If you sign on to do a course, you must stay to the end or fail.  I understand reserve units concurrently run IAP with BMQ over weekends over the winter--you may want to look into that for the fall of '07.  This is followed by a brief BOTC in the summer then CAP (neither of which are ran over weekends).  Reserve units are generally understanding about time commitments, but as an officer, being unavailable for training can create friction (amongst the contentions, limited positions).

If you want any other advice, ask away.  Just think about your questions first and see if you can answer them yourself beforehand.

1 Edited to correctness as pointed out in later post.

 

[George Wallace]

I've noticed this trend about knocking people who join for the money or the free tuition.  I used to have the same attitude because I joined for different reasons.  But in the end who cares why people joined as long as they are effective soldiers and commit to the job they signed on to do.  If this guys wants to join the reserves to help pay for school but ends up being  a good officer then I don't give a rats *** why he joined.  Some join for money, some for adventure, some out of a sense of duty and some because they really have nothing else to fall back on.  And for some it's a litlle bit of everything.

My advice to you: Join for whatever reason you want.  Just make sure you commit and see it through.

I find your argument to be contradictory.  You end by saying to "make sure you commit and see it through'', but rant on prior to that line about the person joining for whatever reason they feel like.  One such example can be seen in the news as we speak; Francisco Juarez.  Frankly, if a person is joining for purely mercenary reasons, I would prefer that they not join.  I find that their interest in money, is also an indicator of their work ethic and what kind of performance we get from them.  They have no interest in 'Team Work' or of being a 'professional soldier'.  Commitment to me means that they will be joining to be part of the Team and for 'professional' reasons.

 

[aesop081]

     b) Pay rates are according to rank and not MOC. 

True but at the same time, generaly speaking it is not.  Legal, medical, dental and, IIRC, pilots are on totaly different pay scales from general service officers.  And of course on the NCM side it is very much MOC dependant as well as rank.

 

[Remius]

I find your argument to be contradictory.  You end by saying to "make sure you commit and see it through'', but rant on prior to that line about the person joining for whatever reason they feel like.  One such example can be seen in the news as we speak; Francisco Juarez.  Frankly, if a person is joining for purely mercenary reasons, I would prefer that they not join.  I find that their interest in money, is also an indicator of their work ethic and what kind of performance we get from them.  They have no interest in 'Team Work' or of being a 'professional soldier'.  Commitment to me means that they will be joining to be part of the Team and for 'professional' reasons.

George,

Reasons for joining and how they'll perform are two seperate things.  Granted, reasons can be indicators of how they'll perform.  There is no reason why someone can't commit to a job even if his motivation is money or otherwise.  So I don't think I'm contradicting anything here.  My Grandfather signed up for WW2 out of  a sense of adventure and duty.  My Great Uncle  however joined because he was unemployed.  Two different reasons, but I don't question their commitment to the job they did.    Mr. Juarez is indeed a case of a bad apple.  I really don't care why he joined.  It's what he did while he was in and how he acted in uniform that peeves me.

Join, and do what's expected of you.

   

 

[Jackieskwong]

i'm sorry if i offended anyone with my post-___-, but when they came to our school they used money as the main incentive to join the reserves. since i was in highschool they've already been using $$ to attract students to sign up.

anyways today i finally tried out the standards to do pass the test. 19 pushups and 2.4k run under 12 minutes. boy am i out of shape. I always thought i was pretty fit, since i do the other pushups(not the millitary ones) and i jog on the cross trainer almsot every other day. But last night i decided to give the millitary pushups a try, i only did 10. I realized it used a lot of tricep muscle. also this morning when i went to the gym i decided to jog on the track instead of the cross trainer. the track is 77 meters so around 31 laps. i did the first 13 in around a minute  average per lap or so thn i had to stop. i figured it must be the smoking. so i finally decided. i can't lie, one of the main reasons for joining is the benefits, but however after trying to do these standards i realized how out of shape i am. So now i have another reason to join the reserves, it is to challenge myself physically by pushing myself to the limits to see how far i can go, and by doing tht first step is to cut down on smoking

~jackie

 

[xo31@711ret]

Well said Crantor;........... a lot of people sign up for various reasons. I came from a small community out east with very few prospects for sustainable employment. My family could ill afford to send me away to university. I joined up mostly to get a paycheck (but also because I was intrigued and somewhat of a family tradition), like my father, brother, sister, some uncles, aunts, cousins and a few friends. Some friends & relatives who went 'away' have done well for themselves / some haven't; some who never left are pretty much doing the same damn thing they were doing over 25 years ago - looking for the sporadic available work to get through the winter; others have done well. 90% of 'us' who joined the military are still serving with 10 or more years. My sister did her 20; my brother just CTed from reserve to regs at age 36 (with over 10 years of class B) dropping from a PO2 to cpl. I had 24 years and 4 months to the day of regular force service: started in the infantry for the first 6 years, then medic for the remainder, retiring as a senior NCO (Sgt). Never been to DB in Edmonton or any crowbar hotel on any of the bases I've been posted to (though had some of extra duties & drill in my very early days: full of 'p*ss & vinegar' in my younger days LOL). So for someone who joined for a 'paycheck', I could be wrong, but I think I've done reasonably well with dedicating (and enjoying) my late teens, 20's, 30's, and early 40's to the defence of this great country of ours. Would I do it again? Damn right. So I receive a pension and my wife is a WO in the the reg force. We are aren't stinking rich, but are able to afford for her, myself and two young daughters comfortably. I am transferring from the supp reserve to the pres in the new year. Do I need the money? No,I'm doing it because I enjoy it. My point is many join up for a myriad of different reasons; in my early days we had a few older 'crusty' NCO's who joined up because the judge ordered them to or go directly to jail. Turned out to be some of the best military mentors I ever had. I'm sure those who join up for the wrong reasons usually get sorted out or out sorted through the front gate......my rant & 2cents for the afternoon

 

[George Wallace]

......  There is no reason why someone can't commit to a job even if his motivation is money or otherwise.  So I don't think I'm contradicting anything here. 

I guess we are looking at your statement of "motivation solely for the money" in a different light.  To me a person with mercenary feelings should not be joining.  We have all joined for a job, and we all know that the money pays the bills, but it sure doesn't make us rich.  We have in most cases joined for reasons of commitment, above the money.  Some are solely motivated by money, and have no commitment to the job.  It doesn't really matter what vocation we want to talk about, but those whose sole goal is monetary, usually have no 'team spirit' and interest in DND or whatever company they may work for on civie street.  They are self-centered social climbers who will just as soon stab you in the back as give you a hand up.  Those are the people I am looking at when you say that they are here for the money, not the guys who are here for the job.

I guess we are both looking at different aspects and perspectives of your statement "here for the money".

 

[xo31@711ret]

Good point George, &  well said; a lot of us older 'down-east' boys probably joined for the adventure and see some of the world, but getting a good job was a big ticket! (Certainly not for the outstanding paychecks at the time - but for a lot of us it was a hell of a lot better than we could earn back home).

 

[Shamrock]

Honestly, if a soldier's reasons for joining really mattered, it would show up on a PER.

I'm more worried about what motivates a troop, what causes him to retain, and for what reasons he'll release.

 

[dynaglide]

Everybodies motivation to join will be different to be sure.  But to those on the moral high ground who say they don't do it for the money would be singing a different tune if the 15th and 30th paycheques suddenly ceased to exist I'm sure. 

 

[George Wallace]

Everybodies motivation to join will be different to be sure.  But to those on the moral high ground who say they don't do it for the money would be singing a different tune if the 15th and 30th paycheques suddenly ceased to exist I'm sure. 

You don't get it.  That is not what we are saying about "people joining for the money".  I am talking about the 'opportunists' who are trying to scam a free education and once they have it disappear.  For example the RMC cadet a few years back who joined to be a Doctor.  DND paid his education and wages as a Cadet and while that was happening he and his family were setting up and equiping a Practice for him back home.  Once he graduated, he took his Release and went home to a Practice that he set up more or less on the "Government's Dime".  Some have used the CF in much the same way that others use Welfare Fraud. 

We all know that everyone looks to their Bank Accounts every 15th and end month to see that their wages are there.  That wasn't the point.

 

[dynaglide]

Actually I do get it.  And I agree with you 100%.  But unless there are safeguards put in place by the system to ensure that get a return on their investment there will always be opportunists who take advantage. 

 

[old man neri]

For example the RMC cadet a few years back who joined to be a Doctor.  DND paid his education and wages as a Cadet and while that was happening he and his family were setting up and equiping a Practice for him back home.  Once he graduated, he took his Release and went home to a Practice that he set up more or less on the "Government's Dime".  Some have used the CF in much the same way that others use Welfare Fraud.

I thought RMC docs had a certain amount of time they had to serve before a release is granted. Perhaps I am unfamiliar with this case. I know in my personal situation I have to serve 7 years after my wings.

Almost everyone gets a job because they need money, it's how our world works. However, most people want a job they will like and enjoy doing. So yes people are seeking the money and there is nothing wrong with inquiring as to how much they will make but I gather that most these people also want to enjoy their job. I guess I just see it as two fold; not only do you want money but you also want to enjoy your job. Maybe that's just me.

 

[Elwood]

you also want to enjoy your job. Maybe that's just me.

I think a lot of us would agree with you. 

 

[Remius]

Yep.  And to be fair to George's comments, I have seen some people join the reserves for the tuition reimbursement and summer paychecks but little else.  They don't come out on rememberance day, avoid regimental functions, do the minimum to be NES to collect the reimbursment.  Those same people never go out on exercise but are the first in line to collect whatever benefit (and there are lots of them) of being in the CF.

Like I said though, I don't really care why they joined.  It's how they are when they are in.

George, your Welfare comment is a good analogy.