So You Want to be Charles Atlas

[Ascendant]

OMG, Wonderbread, where are the curlz and pec deck!???!!!

That program sux!!!11!

/sarcasm

 

[aesop081]

The training principles that Kratos is describing are being applied by REAL soldiers on REAL courses. 

Yup and for every real soldier or an real cours that says "A" is the greatest thing ever, you will find an equaly real soldier on an equaly real course that says "B" is better and that "A" is utter rubbish.

People find what works for them. Simple as that.

I'm pretty sure i passed a real course or 2..........

 

[Ascendant]

Yup and for every real soldier or an real cours that says "A" is the greatest thing ever, you will find an equaly real soldier on an equaly real course that says "B" is better and that "A" is utter rubbish.

People find what works for them. Simple as that.

I'm pretty sure i passed a real course or 2..........

In almost every post you've made, you seem to be missing the fact that I acknowledge the personalization of training and that people do, in fact, find what works for them. That being said, there are some fundamentals that are, indeed, a matter of right and wrong.

 

[Fusaki]

Yup and for every real soldier or an real cours that says "A" is the greatest thing ever, you will find an equaly real soldier on an equaly real course that says "B" is better and that "A" is utter rubbish.

This thread is not about two meatheads splitting hairs over the finer points of military fitness. 

This thread is about  bodybuilding (scottyg) vs strength training (Kratos). 

In should be overwhelmingly obvious that one side of this discussion is offering much better advice than the other side.

 

[George Wallace]

In should be overwhelmingly obvious that one side of this discussion is offering much better advice than the other side.

And neither wants to concede to the other.........So your point?

 

[scottyg]

What's wrong with Mark Rippetoe? He has nothing to do with bodybuilding and is probably the most highly regarded beginner/intermediate strength coach out there. Starting Strength and Starting Strength Second Edition are two of the best training books ever produced. With that said, I don't understand what you're saying there.

Seriously? There are tons of people who lift under eight reps for the main lifts (ie. Squat, bench, DL). I don't do anything over 5 for those three, with majority of the work done at three and under. Some of the strongest guys I know don't do anything more than singles.

How are they ridiculous? You're still saying "good" chest as if your talking about aesthetics. I know guys benching high 300s - mid 400s that don't do incline or decline. They probably don't know what they're doing, though.
Not only that, if you cannot do more than one excersise other than the bench press then obviously something is wrong....there is more to the chest than the bench press.....you know when youre muscles get too used to an excersise? Then you will no longer gain what you used to....which is why it is good to always switch up the workouts....but to limit yourself to only one workout is absurd.

And no, it's not dumb.

You can have absolutely no training background, go do a one day course and become a "certified" personal trainers. Please.

I speak to the ones that work at my gym on occasion and hear the advice they give out. It makes me want to stab my ear drums out.

Plus, I really like the "proof is in the pudding" idea. Why would I ask a 150 lb weak person for advice on how to become strong? I wouldn't.

In no way am i talking about bodybuilding...if you look at it from the side of Kratos he is saying that the people who are big are the strong ones, and the people who are "150lb" he would never take advice from. How about you look at people in the UFC and do not even judge their ability to fight. If you ever see some of them training you would realize how strong they are, yet many are not over 150 pounds or even 175.

What would be the most realistic path to take if you were to join the military? It would be to be somewhere in between, so you are strong but you can also do the pushups and chinups required and still have good cardio. I guarantee the 250+ pound people in any gym have no cardio, unless they are a rare breed or exceptionally tall. All I am saying is that is extremely more realistic and useful for someone joining the army to do more reps and less weight, because this is what will be required of you. Think your Sgt. is gonna say drop and give me a 300lb bench press? It's not useful to what the guy was looking for. And also, the thing by Mark or whatever his face is is a highly controversial chart, seeing as this is one of the most contested arguments in lifting weight there is (more weight less reps or less weight more reps).

I do not know where you work out but to do anything under 5 reps seems absurd to me. I saw the post by Stymeist, and I have read others like it...if you notice the title is for beginners, and it is used for them to get used to weight training.

Its impossible to argue this, but either way, for the army and the fitness level you need to achieve, my method is superior to yours. If only because it makes your muscles more used to the STRAIN, because yours would get them used to heavier strain but less time.

 

[Fusaki]

And neither wants to concede to the other.........So your point?

I'm just trying to help the new guy who types "weight training" into the search function sift through the bullshit.

 

[aesop081]

my method is superior to yours.

:

When i'm right.......i'm right.

 

[scottyg]

And have you ever heard of muscle memory? If you keep only doing the bench press then your muscles will get too used to it and will not break as much as they did before, and thus it will limit your ability to move up and limit the power in your chest. Which is why the "LOLZOR PECDECK" is important, as long with incline and decline, not only do they work other muscles, they also change up the way your muscles are lifting, which is important, or else you will have problems with muscle memory.

 

[aesop081]

People want to be ready for BMQ, here is the all time bestest method :

- Go running;
- Do lots of pushups;
- Do lots of situps; and
- Do lots of chinups if you can.

Do the above and you wont have a problem and you wont have to wear chucks and chalk on your hands.

 

[scottyg]

People want to be ready for BMQ, here is the all time bestest method :

- Go running;
- Do lots of pushups;
- Do lots of situps; and
- Do lots of chinups if you can.

Do the above and you wont have a problem and you wont have to wear chucks and chalk on your hands.

Although you'd look really awesome if you did wear those, right Kratos?

 

[Fusaki]

You guys are killing me.

This thread is making be dumber.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

I do not know where you work out but to do anything under 5 reps seems absurd to me. .

Mike Mentzer seemed to do alright with it..................

 

[Ascendant]

In no way am i talking about bodybuilding...if you look at it from the side of Kratos he is saying that the people who are big are the strong ones, and the people who are "150lb" he would never take advice from. How about you look at people in the UFC and do not even judge their ability to fight. If you ever see some of them training you would realize how strong they are, yet many are not over 150 pounds or even 175.

What would be the most realistic path to take if you were to join the military? It would be to be somewhere in between, so you are strong but you can also do the pushups and chinups required and still have good cardio. I guarantee the 250+ pound people in any gym have no cardio, unless they are a rare breed or exceptionally tall. All I am saying is that is extremely more realistic and useful for someone joining the army to do more reps and less weight, because this is what will be required of you. Think your Sgt. is gonna say drop and give me a 300lb bench press? It's not useful to what the guy was looking for. And also, the thing by Mark or whatever his face is is a highly controversial chart, seeing as this is one of the most contested arguments in lifting weight there is (more weight less reps or less weight more reps).

I do not know where you work out but to do anything under 5 reps seems absurd to me. I saw the post by Stymeist, and I have read others like it...if you notice the title is for beginners, and it is used for them to get used to weight training.

Its impossible to argue this, but either way, for the army and the fitness level you need to achieve, my method is superior to yours. If only because it makes your muscles more used to the STRAIN, because yours would get them used to heavier strain but less time.

I know people can be small an strong, if that is there choice. I'm into powerlifting, why are you trying to tell me about strength?

The methods you have described in your posts, whether you know or not, are the typical ideas spewed by bodybuilding sources.

This has no relevance to this discussion, but there are no fighters in the UFC who weigh under 150 lbs. The 155 lb fighters cut from 165-170 to weigh in. Also, many of them are not as strong as they look.

There's no reason why you can't train heavy bench and then do endurance work after or on off days.

That chart by Mark Rippetoe is not contestable or controversial at all. It's not telling anyone how to train, it's simply laying out the information on the effects of certain rep ranges. How is that controversial? Do you think he just pulled that out of his ass? You still seem to lack an understanding of the very basics of weight training. Low weight + high reps = sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. High weight + low reps = myofibrillar hypertrophy. This is not disputable and you will find no one who knows anything about weight training who says otherwise.

You know why I train with reps under 5 for my squat, bench and deadlift? BECAUSE I ONLY WANT TO GET STRONGER. That is my goal. My goal is to add more weight to those lifts and the best way to do that is with low reps and high weight. How can you even think or suggest (if you are) that doing 10 reps at 75% of your 1 Rep Max is going to make you stronger than doing 3 reps at 90% of your 1RM.

Have you ever heard of the Hepburn program? I'll answer that: No, you haven't. It's a program based on doing singles. Singles. One rep.

No your method is not superior. You can train to increase limit strength and still have excellent muscular endurance.

 

[aesop081]

Maybe you guys should switch to pistols at dawn  :

 

[Ascendant]

And have you ever heard of muscle memory? If you keep only doing the bench press then your muscles will get too used to it and will not break as much as they did before, and thus it will limit your ability to move up and limit the power in your chest. Which is why the "LOLZOR PECDECK" is important, as long with incline and decline, not only do they work other muscles, they also change up the way your muscles are lifting, which is important, or else you will have problems with muscle memory.

Muscle memory. How did I know that one was going to come out next?

Muscle memory is a crock of s***. You can research this on your own, I'm not wasting time on it.

Motor memory exists, but in the manner which you describe it.

Stop talking about muscles "breaking" you're starting to sound worse and worse.

I've been doing the same lifts for over a year. You know how I confuse my muscles? By following a properly structured and progressive routine. You know what amounts to? ADDING MORE DAMN WEIGHT TO THE BAR. Hey muscles, here's some confusion for you: You lifted X last week and you're going to lift X+1 this week.

 

[Ascendant]

Although you'd look really awesome if you did wear those, right Kratos?

Nope, but you'd make yourself even better by adding strength training to that mix.

 

[Ascendant]

Maybe you guys should switch to pistols at dawn  :

Maybe you should contribute something?

Or do you just know nothing about the subject?

Scotty: You've only mentioned benching in each of your posts. Do you squat? Do you deadlift? Do you overhead press?

 

[aesop081]

Maybe you should contribute something?

Reply #27....which is the only reply in some time that actualy had anything to do with the original intent.

Or do you just know nothing about the subject?

Seriously...pistols at dawn. Keyboard duel isnt working for you guys.

 

[Ascendant]

Yeah, the typical military response.

Why do any extra strength training that would make you better at those things?

Why not do weighted sit ups to make you better at body weight ones...

If you can do 10+ BW chin ups, why not start doing weighted ones to make you better at BW ones...

Nah, just do lots of push ups, sit ups and run.