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Soaring gun sales in Arizona

daftandbarmy

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Soaring gun sales in Arizona

Planning for the worst
Jun 4th 2009 | PHOENIX
From The Economist print edition

Gun-owners are on the defensive

AT THE National Rifle Association’s 138th annual convention, held this year in Phoenix, Arizona, 65,000 people poured through the doors. They admired the fancy firearms, snacked on grilled buffalo and were happily recruited by shooting associations. Tom Power, of the Texas Gun Collectors Association, says membership has been soaring since Barack Obama took office. Bill Bachenberg, the owner of a shooting range near Allentown, Pennsylvania, has been registering 400 new members a month. “American gun-owners don’t trust this administration,” he says.

Get ‘em while you canAmerican gun sales surged after Mr Obama was elected president. He had a voting record of raising the tax on guns and ammunition by 500%, and, on top of that, he hinted during the campaign that he might restrict gun sales and create a national registry of gun-owners. The election was seven months ago, and the buying spree has not flagged since. Data released by the FBI’s National Instant Criminal Background Check System, which serve as a gauge of actual sales, reported 1,255,980 checks in April 2009: a sixth monthly increase, and a 30.3% increase from the 940,961 reported last April.

Concealed-weapon permits are up, too. Ohio, Kentucky, North Carolina and Montana all report a rise in licences issued; Ohio saw a 139% increase in the first quarter of this year over last. Meanwhile, classes on gun rules in Phoenix are booked solid for months, ammunition is sold out, and gunmakers and dealers alike are scrambling to keep up with demand.

Sun Devil Manufacturing in Mesa, for example, which makes semi-automatic rifles for $1,000 or so less than its competitors, is running three production shifts a day. Guns Etc, a shop in the Phoenix suburb of Chandler, is selling 50-70 handguns a week, compared with 30 before the election, and sales of AR-15 and AK-47 semi-automatic rifles have nearly doubled. On a Friday afternoon the store is packed with men, retired and young, buying revolvers, semi-automatics and shotguns. Young mums browse the daintier pistols.

Are they all panicking? They don’t think so. Mr Obama has said he favours a ban on assault weapons, of the sort Bill Clinton brought in in 1994 (it has now lapsed). Gun-owners also feel Mr Obama is soft on crime, and fear that the recession will bring social and economic collapse. Ron Sega says his customers worry about thugs looting grocery stores for milk and mothers being robbed. “People want to be ready and armed, should things go south.”

In several states, gun laws are being relaxed. One bill working its way through the Arizona legislature would allow those with a concealed gun permit to enter, armed, into restaurants serving liquor. And a new state law allows people to carry loaded guns, including semi-automatic weapons, into state parks.

At a restaurant in Chandler, waitresses worry that combining weapons with alcohol, even with restrictions, seems foolhardy. But its sponsor is confident that the bill will pass. Momentum is with him. More shooting ranges are due to open soon in Arizona and elsewhere, to cater to more families who wish to be armed, trained and ready for anything.

http://www.economist.com/world/unitedstates/displayStory.cfm?story_id=13788623&source=most_commented

 
Indeed, ammunition has been scarce here since October. Gun sales have been almost as brisk. I was at the NRA Convention 2 of the 3 days - not sure what it has to do with the other points discussed in the article.

The "guns in restaurants" law is easy to resist based on emotion, but not so when logic is applied. CCW holders are carefully screened (police background check) and must attend an 8 hour class. Chances are there are already "undesireables" carrying in bars and restaurants that: a) don't have any training or background check, and b) don't give a rat's ass about gun laws or the opinions of the waiteresses
 
muskrat89 said:
Indeed, ammunition has been scarce here since October. Gun sales have been almost as brisk. I was at the NRA Convention 2 of the 3 days - not sure what it has to do with the other points discussed in the article.

The "guns in restaurants" law is easy to resist based on emotion, but not so when logic is applied. CCW holders are carefully screened (police background check) and must attend an 8 hour class. Chances are there are already "undesireables" carrying in bars and restaurants that: a) don't have any training or background check, and b) don't give a rat's ass about gun laws or the opinions of the waiteresses

As well, the mass murdering criminal element frequently picks these so called 'gun free zones' (bars, restaurants, schools, churchs, etc) as targets, specifically, because they know law abiding citizens won't be armed and, therefore, won't create an opposition for them.
 
Is there a source for stats on gun use (criminal use and pers/home defence) comparing liberal and concealed carry jurisdictions to more restrictive jurisdictions that isn't published (and possibly spun) by the NRA or by their vocal opposition?
 
Plenty.

You can do your own online investigation by comparing violent crime and murder stats for places like Chicago and Washington DC (heavily restricted) and Vermont (as few restrictions as possible).

The most extensive and most famous study was http://www.amazon.com/More-Guns-Less-Crime-Understanding/dp/0226493636

Jurisdictions with the most restrictive firearms laws have higher rates of murder and other violent crimes than states with more liberal laws.
 
http://www.azccw.com/More%20Facts%20&%20Statistics.htm

CONCEALED CARRY
Facts & Statistics
Today, there are only 5 states that do not have a right-to-carry system. 

States with right-to-carry laws have lower overall violent crime rates, compared to states without right-to-carry laws. In states whose laws respect the citizen's right-to-carry guns for self defense the total violent crime is 13% lower, homicide is 3% lower, robbery is 26% lower and aggravated assault is 7% lower. (Data: Crime in the United States 1996, FBI Uniform Crime Reports)

Right-to-carry license holders are more law-abiding than the general public. In Florida, for example, the firearm crime rate among license holders, annually averaging only several crimes per 100,000 licensees, is a fraction of the rate for the state as a whole. Since the carry law went into effect in 1987, less than 0.02% of Florida carry permits have been revoked because of gun crimes committed by license holders. (Florida Dept. of State) Research reports printed in "More Guns, Less Crime", John R. Lott, Jr., the John M. Olin Visiting Law and Economics Fellow at the University of Chicago, examined data ranging from gun ownership polls to FBI crime rate data for each of the nation's 3.045 counties over a 1977 too 1994 time span. Lott's research amounts to the largest data set that has ever been put together for any study of crime, let alone for the study of gun control. 
 
Loachman, thanks.  I'm also almost through reading Enter the Babylon System: Unpacking Gun Culture from Samuel Colt to 50 Cent which, although its focus is hip hop culture and guns, provides some interesting information on gun use rates escalating with high availability of guns and a culture of acceptance of guns as a constant lifestyle accessory.  It also discusses the increasing acquisition and use of semi-auto weapons (i.e., massive increases in ammunition consumption) when police agencies seek to up-arm themselves in response to feeling outgunned by criminal elements with semi and full auto weapons.

I think the tie-in between availability of any type weapon and its use, especially in acts of rage or response to insult, is easily overlooked.  There have been comparisons in the UK on knife crime rates - not because its the weapon of choice, but because its the one that was readily available.  Greater numbers of more lethal weapons don't necessarily have a direct increase on number of incidents, their availabilty simply increases the probability of use in incidents.

Google - Britain knife crime rate

 
A new perspective of gun control, from a different group than usual. When I first heard about this movie, I thought "Sensationalism". As I watched the movie though - I was struck. Remove the targeted "race", and the predominant theme still applies...

http://arizonahuntingtoday.com/desertrat/2009/06/02/no-guns-for-negroes/
 
muskrat89 said:
http://www.azccw.com/More%20Facts%20&%20Statistics.htm

From a Google search of nra + "john lott"

NRA Leaders - What NRA Leaders Are Saying
John Lott Pro-Gun Researcher/Advocate ... awareness about the NRA's destructive agenda. This website is in no way affiliated with the NRA. ...
www.nraleaders.com/john-lott.html - Cached - Similar pages

No expectation of bias there, right?  That's why I specified non-aligned sources.
 
Seen, but my intent was to show the statistics you requested as stated on that (biased)website with the source: (Data: Crime in the United States 1996, FBI Uniform Crime Reports) Which I don't consider to be biased.

 
Michael O'Leary said:
From a Google search of nra + "john lott"

No expectation of bias there, right?  That's why I specified non-aligned sources.

Interesting that you chose an anti-NRA site to claim bias on Mr Lott's behalf.

Mr Lott had no NRA affiliation when he began his research, nor did he receive funding from them. If I recall, he was actually surprised by his own results, which have held up remarkably well under onslaught from those biased against firearms.

Have a look at his website http://johnrlott.blogspot.com/

See also http://johnrlott.tripod.com/Plassmann_Whitley.pdf

From http://www.reason.com/news/show/27562.html :

"Until recently, when he bought a 9-mm Ruger after his own research impressed upon him the value of gun ownership, John Lott had no personal experience with firearms, aside from one day of riflery in summer camp when he was 12. That fact did not stop a reviewer of Lott's 1998 book, More Guns, Less Crime (University of Chicago Press), from labeling him a "gun nut." Writing in The American Prospect, Edward Cohn also identified Lott as "a leading loon of the Chicago School of economics, known for its ultra-market ideology." But that was gentle--a backhanded compliment, even--compared to the attacks from anti-gun activists, who accused Lott of producing his landmark study at the behest of the gun industry.

"Lott, now a senior research scholar at Yale Law School, used to be the John M. Olin Law and Economics Fellow at the University of Chicago. That position, like similar ones at other major universities, was endowed by a foundation based on the personal fortune of the late John M. Olin, former chairman of the Olin Corporation. Among many other things, the Olin Corporation makes Winchester ammunition. These facts led Kristen Rand of the Violence Policy Center to conclude that "Lott's work was, in essence, funded by the firearms industry"--a charge that was echoed by other gun control ad-vocates, including Charles Schumer, then a Democratic representative from New York and now a senator.

"Never mind that assuming the Olin Foundation takes orders from "the firearms industry" is like assuming the Ford Foundation does the bidding of automakers. Never mind that Olin fellows are chosen by faculty committees, not by the foundation (with which Lott never had any contact). Proponents of gun control were desperate to discredit Lott, because his findings contradicted their dark predictions about what would happen if states allowed law-abiding citizens to carry concealed handguns.

"Analyzing 18 years of data for more than 3,000 counties, Lott found that violent crime drops significantly when states switch from discretionary permit policies, which give local officials the authority to determine who may carry a gun, to "shall issue" or "right-to-carry" laws, which require that permits be granted to everyone who meets certain objective criteria. That conclusion, first set forth in a 1997 paper that Lott co-authored with David Mustard, now an economist at the University of Georgia, heartened defenders of gun ownership and dismayed their opponents. Arguing that "shall issue" laws are beneficial, while other gun laws are ineffective at best, Lott quickly became one of the most widely cited--and reviled--scholars in the gun control debate."

More on the link given.

 
Across the US you find that the average rate of firearm related indictments against CCW permit holders is approx 1%. Considering the rather limited training the permit holder are required to take, the accident rate of permit holder is also small. Most people who become CCW holders take additional courses to improve themselves and there is a significant culture involved. Check out DefensiveCarry in the US.

By the way CCW is called ATC here, there are apparently 13 people in Ontario who have ATC permits for defense. (There are also ATC's for widerness carry and armoured car guards)

If you are a supporter of CCW here in Canada, check out CanadaCarry
 
Colin P said:
Across the US you find that the average rate of firearm related indictments against CCW permit holders is approx 1%. Considering the rather limited training the permit holder are required to take, the accident rate of permit holder is also small. Most people who become CCW holders take additional courses to improve themselves and there is a significant culture involved. Check out DefensiveCarry in the US.

By the way CCW is called ATC here, there are apparently 13 people in Ontario who have ATC permits for defense. (There are also ATC's for widerness carry and armoured car guards)

If you are a supporter of CCW here in Canada, check out CanadaCarry

Out of idle curiosity, how does one get issued an ATC (no, I'm not looking to get one)? If there's only 13 in Ontario, I assume it's highly restricted and 'only for a good reason'.
 
A mere mortal will never get one. Your life has to be in constant danger of criminal intent. Think high priced politically connected judges.

Oh, and Mom Bouchard of the Hells Angels was granted one while awaiting trial ::) No, I'm not kidding.
 
recceguy said:
Oh, and Mom Bouchard of the Hells Angels was granted one while awaiting trial ::) No, I'm not kidding.

Because he flipped on his former buddies. It makes sense and its ludicris all at the same time.

I believe MGen (Ret'd) Mackenzie was issued one for a time (or so he mentioned in his latest book).
 
I would also assume there are some people in the firearms industry, would be issued one.

I am only saying this based on a friend who is a part owner of a High Profile Company, based out of the US though.

Again, I am just throwing that out, and not confirming it.

dileas

tess
 
Piper said:
Out of idle curiosity, how does one get issued an ATC (no, I'm not looking to get one)? If there's only 13 in Ontario, I assume it's highly restricted and 'only for a good reason'.

You must talk to your local CFO (Chief Firearms Officer) who if you convince them with your need will give you a form that does not apparently exists which will ask for 3-4 instances were you life was in danger, you must also have suppport of your local police chief and sufficent training to use it. Of course the CFO don't like being ppinned down on exactly what training is sufficent._
 
Would my Certificate of Service from MI6 for all those years of clandestine activities in the East Bloc suffice?  >:D




Just being a Legend in my own mind.



 
George Wallace said:
Would my Certificate of Service from MI6 for all those years of clandestine activities in the East Bloc suffice?  >:D




Just being a Legend in my own mind.

George,
You have to use terms like the baddest red para troopers instead of East Bloc...makes it sound almost legit on the internet lol.

See kid's an Int Op do get to do 007 stuff.

I was MI-7 for 2 years.
 
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