SOG + Crimper

[Scoobie Newbie]

CANFORGEN 090/05 ADM(IE) 003 111132Z MAY 05
USE OF THE SOG MULTI-TOOL CRIMPING ATTACHMENT
UNCLASSIFIED


REFS: A. LFTEU USER EVALUATION REPORT DATED 28-29 NOV 00
B. LFTEU INTERIM REPORT MULTI-TOOL CRIMPER USER EVALUATION DATED 5-6 FEB 02
C. LFTEU USER EVALUATION REPORT MULTI-TOOL CRIMPER DATED 13-14 NOV 02



THIS IS A JOINT J3 ENGR/DAPM MSG


EFFECTIVE IMMEDIATELY ALL CRIMPING FOR CAPS BLASTING NON-ELECTRIC WILL BE CONDUCTED BY USING EITHER CRIMPERS BLASTING CAP NO 4 NSN 5120-21-806-2307 OR CRIMPER BLASTING CAP DUAL CRIMP MK 6 NSN 5120-21-912-6120. THE CLOTHE THE SOLDIER (CTS) MULTI-TOOL WITH CRIMPER NSN 5110-507-0228 IS NOT RPT NOT AUTHORIZED FOR GENERAL USE AS A CRIMPING TOOL FOR CAPS BLASTING NON-ELECTRIC


NOTWITHSTANDING THE RECOMMENDATIONS AT REFS A, B AND C, DAPM HAS DETERMINED THAT THE CTS MULTI-TOOL IS CUMBERSOME/AWKWARD TO MANIPULATE IN AND ABOUT THE AREA OF THE BLASTING CAP WHILE TRYING TO PERFORM THE CRIMP. THIS SITUATION PROVIDES THE POSSIBILITY OF A LACK OF POSITIVE CONTROL OF THE BLASTING CAP WHILE PERFORMING A CRIMP. THESE NEGATIVE FEATURES COMBINED WITH INCLEMENT WEATHER CONSIDERATIONS PRECLUDE THE USE OF THE CTS MULTI-TOOL FOR CRIMPING. ACCORDINGLY, ALL REGULAR AND RESERVE FORCE PERSONNEL ARE DIRECTED TO USE ONLY THE APPROVED CF CRIMPING TOOLS INDICATED IN PARA 2


THERE WILL BE NO FURTHER PROCUREMENT OF THE CTS SOG MULTI-TOOL WITH CRIMPER NSN 5110-01-507-0228. WHEN CURRENT STOCK OF SOG IS CONSUMED, IT WILL BE REPLACED WITH THE IN-SERVICE GERBER MULTI-TOOL NSN 5110-01-434-3458

 

[KevinB]

:

Gee what a shock - of course if yor trying to do a hasty breach on a house - the SOG might be a little bit more convient or accessible for 031 types...

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

ding ding ding

 

[KevinB]

I swear some people who come out with these canforgens have nothing better to do.

I got the SOG issued and I like it a lot better than the Gerber - even with no crimping plans in my future.  So now we stop buying them because someone could use it as a field expedient - that may (probably won't) work as well as the proper tool...

Maybe we should stop the Holosight purchase for the Inf - it would stop us from using it as a sniper scope  :

 

[McG]

Ever since this was first issued we had been told that it had not yet been given the thumbs up for use in crimping and that it was performing poorly in trials.   I don't see why there is all this lamenting a failed piece of kit being removed from service.   If you get a bad crimp, your explosives will not fire.   There is an even worse potential that a bad crimp will cause the det to explode in your hand and make you a casualty.

As far as all the other functions of the SOG v.s. the Gerber, I prefer the SOG.   I do not know if my preference is typical of other soldiers nor do I know what the CF selection criteria for multi-tools was.   If the crimpers were the only element that put the SOG ahead in the selection of multi-tool, then it would make sense that we discontinue buying them.   They are not being recalled to prevent soldiers from using them.   We have stopped spending money to get more of them (because they don't function in use that lead us to buy).

The solution is not to keep the kit that does not work.  The solution is to make the kit that works more available.

 

[KevinB]

MCG,

I agree on pulling kit that does not work - but the SOG works in the role for which it was purachased.  The crimper is an emergency/expedient role is a secondary bonus - I'd rather have the option.

Despite the CF trying its best to remove any integral capability to breach at the Inf Bn level it is a capability we need - and if we have to use captured/stolen/absconded with explosives I dont see us getting issued crimpers

 

[Scoobie Newbie]

I'm sure no Engineer or Pioneer in their right mind would use the crimper on the SOG unless absolutely necessary.

 

[McG]

The bit about the crimp not being sufficient or blowing your hand off etc is total BS.... Nuff said on that.

A det certainly won't take your hand off and I have never seen one detonate because of a bad crimp (nor have I heard from anyone that has seen such a thing).  However, I'm not going to assume that makes it safe to be sloppy while crimping.

I have seen a fair share of misfires because people screwed-up their crimp.  It is not a matter of the crimp "not being sufficient" but of poor contact between the time fuse and the det.  It is user error, but using the wrong tool for the job can increase occurrences of user error (especially if that tool makes the task awkward). 

I agree on pulling kit that does not work - but the SOG works in the role for which it was purachased.  The crimper is an emergency/expedient role is a secondary bonus - I'd rather have the option.

It is not being pulled.  People that have it will still have it.  The army is not going to buy any new ones for issue as multi-tools.  I would expect that it is more expensive to keep two models of multi-tool, which are effectively equivalent, just for user preference at the QM counter.

 

[armybuck041]

A det certainly won't take your hand off and I have never seen one detonate because of a bad crimp (nor have I heard from anyone that has seen such a thing).   However, I'm not going to assume that makes it safe to be sloppy while crimping.

I have seen a fair share of misfires because people screwed-up their crimp.   It is not a matter of the crimp "not being sufficient" but of poor contact between the time fuse and the det.   It is user error, but using the wrong tool for the job can increase occurrences of user error (especially if that tool makes the task awkward).    

Well, I will leave you with this thought... it works as it was designed, an expedient Crimper. Unfortunately the geniuses at J3 put the run on it... go figure.

There are many other things in our inventory that do a far worse job for things that they were designed for.

I'm dying to know who did the trials on this..... probably a bloody Phase III Crse....

Out to me...