Standalone M203

[vonGarvin]

So, perhaps Shotguns at the CQ, for issue for deliberate ops where they WILL be used, on a case by case basis, as another tool in the toolbox, if there's room?  Maybe, as you said, breaching.  I mean, if you are in close quarters, sure, shotguns are nice, but a stream of lead from a long barrel (which you already have in your hands) is probably the tool you want.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

I don't know....I always thought a shotgun is very good at breaching someones chest cavity.

 

[Petard]

Colt Canada is also offering a GL that is standalone-capable

http://www.diemaco.com/eagle-page.htm

During my ATWO course 2 years ago, with some outstanding support from the Infantry School, we did a trial on the EAGLE in a stand-alone form against a M203 that was also mounted stand-alone. So in answer to the question of "is it possible to have one manufactured", the answer is yes, it's already been done specifically for the Canadian version of the M203, I would suggest you contact Colt Canada if you really want to find out about getting one. Wether or not it ends up being worthwhile to you or ends up just being a "see what I got item", I dunno, you don't see any coming into service now and the trial was completed back in 2005, in other words don't hold your breath waiting for the CF to adopt the idea.
BTW in the for whatever its worth dept, I thought the GL belonged on someone's weapon in most situations, but it would be good to have a stand-alone system in the tool box for say non-lethal crowd confrontation type of scenarios.

 

[KevinB]

Shotguns are a very POOR CQB weapon -- one of the requirements of CQB is quick aimed fire - shotguns pattern and are in that respect quite indiscriminate -- as well due to limited ammuntion and recoil, they are NOT a good choice for CQB. 

I can get at least 2-3 rounds off from a C8 in the same time frame as 1 from a Reminton 870 (aimed again here, not some yahoo just cycling the slide as quick as he/she can). Put that is a military context -- and added mutliple and unknown numbers of multiple targets still like the shotty?


Petard -- I would not hold what DLR's opinion of a weapon is up to any sort of standard -- these are the same people that brought us the TRIAD-1, and the stupid and awkward mount for the M230A1 etc.

 

[Petard]

A Cdn M203 in a standalone rig (the picture is from a brochure that was available to the public on the 2005 AMS Symposium)

 

[GregC]

I'll throw in my 2 cents here as a fairly new private deploying to Afghanistan as a "grenadier" on TF-1-07. I would rather carry a more heavy and awkward weapon (ie C7 with M203 attached) simply for the speed of transitioning between the two weapons. Let's face the facts, yes I've seen the secret squirrel types with M79's bungee'd to their legs or back, but they have all the training and ammunition they need to become masters at transitioning between the two weapons and utlizing both. We do not. Therefore, I would rather be able to transition quickly between weapon systems, and more importantly targets. If, after firing my M203, an enemy appears in close, I can immediately engage with my C7. If that happened with an M79, you would need to transition flawlessly to your slung C7 in order to engage the immediate threat.

 

[Badanai]

I'll throw in my 2 cents here as a fairly new private deploying to Afghanistan as a "grenadier" on TF-1-07. I would rather carry a more heavy and awkward weapon (IE C7 with M203 attached) simply for the speed of transitioning between the two weapons. Let's face the facts, yes I've seen the secret squirrel types with M79's bungee'd to their legs or back, but they have all the training and ammunition they need to become masters at transitioning between the two weapons and utlizing both. We do not. Therefore, I would rather be able to transition quickly between weapon systems, and more importantly targets. If, after firing my M203, an enemy appears in close, I can immediately engage with my C7. If that happened with an M79, you would need to transition flawlessly to your slung C7 in order to engage the immediate threat.

My experience with the M203 mounted on the C7 the only complaint I had with it was my repositioning of my fire positions. With the M203 under the hand guards I had to re teach myself to shoot the C7 do to the fact it changed my fire postion

 

[westie048]

There are good points and bad points to the attached 203 and stand alone, like anything it depends on the role of the person, and what they are comfortable with. Will we ever get the stand alone where you can choose, prob not, but isn't the fact that we may get better kit or weapons that gives us hope that things will get better, which anyone who has been in for any amount time knows, no it wont. ;D






:skull:

 

[brucekie]

If you are looking for a more comfortable way to handle the M203 I would suggust using the M203 grip designed to mout like a vertcal grip to the bottom of the M203 www.m203grip.com. They are pricy though. I email wanting to know prices and it was over 300$ for one. I would suggest trying to manufacture one yourself. But from the looks of it it s seems to improve fire positions. So you don't need to seperate to 2 weapons due to comfort.

 

[1feral1]

Making one yourself?

I don't think that would go over too well.

The generic grip is glued on to the bbl, and its pretty much a permanant fixture.


Cheers,

Wes

 

[RHFC_piper]

Making one yourself?

Both M203 grenadiers in my section bought M203 Grips (for $300), and after looking at them, taking them apart, fiddling with them, etc. I figured, with enough time in a CNC shop, I could probably make them for a considerably cheaper price.  It's a pretty simple design (as it should be), and once part programs are designed for CNC machines, parts can be pumped out rather quickly. 

I think the only reason they're $300 each is 'cause there's no competition in the market.  Unfortunately, there's also very little demand out side the military / deployment market... do they make air-soft M203's?

I believe, like any other vertical grip, it would provide a more comfortable firing position... at least when firing the attached C7.  Has anyone fired the M203 avec grip?  just looking for an experienced opinion.  (infidel6, I'm looking in your direction )

 

[Gunnerlove]

Why would you machine them when injection molded glass filled nylon is so strong (and cheap)?

 

[RHFC_piper]

Why would you machine them when injection molded glass filled nylon is so strong (and cheap)?

Well... The one's sold online have injected handles... but, the two arms which grip to the hand guard on the M203, the core piece (which is just a threaded bar) and the castle nut (which, by turning the handle, tightens the gripping arms) are all made of Aluminum (most likely aircraft grade), Which is fairly easy to machine and is pretty strong.

I'm sure injection molded parts would be just as strong, but I just tend to trust good old machined metal...  ;D

Either way, I figure there's got to be a cheaper and easier way to produce those grips... $300 is just a little pricy.

 

[aesop081]

Why would you machine them when injection molded glass filled nylon is so strong (and cheap)?

I would love to but i loaned my injection molder to my neighbour 6 months ago and he hasn't returned it....

 

[PhilB]

Piper if you could manufacture an M203 grip I could paypal you tonight! I am very interested in getting one but $300 is ridiculous. I looked on their website and I liked the look of the shorter of the grips. If you are serious about making these shoot me a pm and we can talk turkey ;D

 

[1feral1]

The question being is how do you get the old standard hand guard off without damaging the bbl or the old hand guard. where is this going to be done, and what happens to the old hand guard, and who is going to replace it afterwards?

Modifying such weaponry without approval/authorisation is wrong. Using home made mods is even worse. When done by untrained (untrained meaning out of their trade) soldiers and not within the EME Corps is downright dangerous. The 203 bbl is alloy and easily puckered or dented.

I've never had a problem with the 203 under a M16A1, or a Steyr for that matter. The generic hand guard has been around since the weapon was introduced in the 1960's.

I am all for change and mods, but with approved kit, installed by the right mob.

Cheers,

Wes

 

[RHFC_piper]

Piper if you could manufacture an M203 grip I could paypal you tonight! I am very interested in getting one but $300 is ridiculous. I looked on their website and I liked the look of the shorter of the grips. If you are serious about making these shoot me a pm and we can talk turkey ;D

I wish I could get back into a CNC machine shop... I'm still on contract until deemed fit for service again, or ultimately not and released from service.

At some point, I'd like to get my hands on some machines again and start making tactical kit... better and with the advice from others who have used it in the field.  But for now, all I can do is sit in front of my computer, dream of 'good' and 'cheap' tactical gear and try to plan it out on MasterCAM.

The question being is how do you get the old standard hand guard off without damaging the bbl or the old hand guard. where is this going to be done, and what happens to the old hand guard, and who is going to replace it afterwards?

Modifying such weaponry without approval/authorisation is wrong. Using home made mods is even worse. When done by untrained (untrained meaning out of their trade) soldiers and not within the EME Corps is downright dangerous. The 203 bbl is alloy and easily puckered or dented.

I've never had a problem with the 203 under a M16A1, or a Steyr for that matter. The generic hand guard has been around since the weapon was introduced in the 1960's.

I am all for change and mods, but with approved kit, installed by the right mob.

The M203 Grips available on www.m203grip.com (which are pretty much the only ones available) just grip to the existing handguard with direct pressure around it.  No mods to the weapon at all.  And they dont apply enough pressure to damage the tube.  It uses two arms which wrap around the stock when a castle nut is tightened (by twisting the handle).  To release it, there is a button which unlocks the handle and allows it to be loosened off.  Pretty ingenious solution to the problem.  And it's pretty far from 'home made'.. even if I was to make one, it would still involve some serious machining in a comercial machine shop.  CNC ain't cheap.. especially a multi-axis mill.

 

[NavyShooter]

If you want to get into CNC stuff in a home shop, check out Sherline.

For about $2500 you can get into a CNC Mill with a reasonable work area (9"x5"x6") plus the cost of your software and PC.

I'm running a manual 4400 lathe wtih the milling attachment, and it's pretty neat some of the stuff you can produce.  So far, there's some really nice cannons hanging around the shop

I started a machinist course before joining the mob, and loved the CNC portion of it.  My only regret is not having finished that course prior to joining.

NS

 

[RHFC_piper]

If you want to get into CNC stuff in a home shop, check out Sherline.

For about $2500 you can get into a CNC Mill with a reasonable work area (9"x5"x6") plus the cost of your software and PC.

I'm running a manual 4400 lathe wtih the milling attachment, and it's pretty neat some of the stuff you can produce.  So far, there's some really nice cannons hanging around the shop

There's a lot available in the buy and sell papers around my area.  ATS keeps selling some pretty nice 4 - 6 Axis HAAS Mill centres for decent prices, but it all comes down to space and money... I live in a townhouse and the wife (soon to be) owns the garage for her car (my truck gets to sit outside).  So, no space... and I just bought the house... so, no cash...  The machines are going to have to wait.  For now, I'll just write programs and design parts (masterCAM).

I started a machinist course before joining the mob, and loved the CNC portion of it.  My only regret is not having finished that course prior to joining.

NS

Yeah, I finished GMM and CNC, and had a crappy job in a shop before aI deployed.  I don't know if I can go back to the shop, can't stand (sit or lay) for long period without pain, but I'm hoping I can atleast do programming and first-offs...  It get's in your system, doesn't it (CNC that is).

Anyway, this hijack has gone pretty wild.  Back to the subject at hand...

Has anyone used the Stand alone M203 with a vertical grip?  Just wondering... looking for oppinions.

I think the stand alone idea seems pretty good, but I can see some problems which could arise on the 2 way range; ie. switching weapons. 

My only question would be (to those who've used both... if there are any) is; Which is better for accuracy, Mounted to C7 or Stand alone? and has anyone noticed any difference with vertical grips (both mounted and stand alone)?

 

[Gunnerlove]

$300? for that WTF. IMO it is not worth the expense and would be more about the LCF than filling a need. To be honest I have not liked vertical grips on any weapons I have shot so far as they don't seem to point well (guess you like them or you don't).