Standard Mag Issue

[westie47]

I'm just wondering if any units out there have joined the 21st century of soldiering and have increased the standard number of mags issued up to 10 from 5. I think it's high time that we get out of the 70's and into the millenium. My buddy does bodyguard work in Iraq and their standard load-out is 15 in their chest rigs with a further 10 in the 'go' bag!!!! I know when we did FIBUA a few years ago, it almost took an Order-in-Council from the CO to get the RQ to issue 10 mags per man. What's the big deal I ask? If I take 10 then I'm responsible for 10. I know the TV is designed to only carry 5, but they have made an insert for the C9 pouch to carry 5 more. A day late and a dollar short, if you ask me!

Here's an amusing yet frustrating antidote from a brigade ex I was on back in 98. We were in Ft Lewis, doing live-fire training up to sect level. Well we arrived at the sect attack range, all gung-ho to do the business. My buddy, who was a sect 2i/c, wanted to borrow my Saracen chest rig and some extra mags so he would have 10. I always carried 10 min. We got off the trucks and the 3 PPCLI WO, who was stuck in 1975, told us to drop our kit, put our mags in our helmets and to clear weapons (SOP). My buddy puts his 10 mags in his helmet as directed. As the WO comes up, he says, "What the **** is that?" "Those are my mags", replies the poor MCpl. "Where did you get 10, my troops only have 5, 5 is the standard issue, so get rid of the other 5 mags, NOW!!!" replied the crusty old WO. So my friend does. The next command, "Move to the ammo point and collect your ammo and grenades" This is the humorous/frustrating part. So the disgruntled MCpl goes and collects 300 rds!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Well he was ready to start shooting right then and there. That's the kind of close-mindedness we need to overcome.

Any thoughts on the matter. I know as my unit goes into sect attack and FIBUA training after Christmas, I plan on fighting this battle all over again.

 

[Kendrick]

Here in the East, 34 brigade, we're still at 5 mags...  they parade loud and flashy about the new army and restructuration and whatnot, but thats only happening in offices somewhere.  To tell you the truth though, in most exercises we do we could do with 2 mags.  We get blank rounds everytime, but not a whole lot.  But I would agree with you, if we were to load up tons of ammo, a decent amount of mags would be useful.  Our resources are VERY thin.  Can't expect much of anything, it's all gone to hell admin-wise, and us poor grunts are stuck in the middle with it. 

Mind you, we're in the reserves, can't expect the same level of resources like MJB and KevinB see

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Sounds like somebody's been "put out to pasture" for the remainder of his career as RSS. 

 

[Infanteer]

I'm laughing right now because I know some of these details.

Westie47, have fun in your battles with those who like to hoard stuff. 

 

[MCpl Burtoo]

On any Ex I have been on, if more than 5 mags are req...we get them. With trench clearing and such, it does not seem to be an issue...that has been my experience anyway. Mind you I have been an EXs, and ranges where I have my 5 x mags and then a couple of bandoleers of ammo...ready for the re-org. With the amount of ammo we get on EXs lately...5 mags seems to do just fine-lol

 

[KevinB]

In 1Vp we had 7 mags for Rifle coys and 10 for Recce
overseas I had 16  ;D

Now back in trg we have 5  ???
I heard 3VP is doing 10 still regardless.

 

[westie47]

I realize that at home here we hardly get enough ammo to fill 5 mags, but when I was in Croatia (93!!!) we didn't even wear webbing and I was given 300+ rounds. I know for advance-to-contact training 5 should be enough. But for FIBUA troops should have more. Is it written anywhere that 5 mags are standard issue? I don't think it's in the C7 pam. Or is it just something that has become the status quo? Be that as it may, I believe that it's time for a change of thinking.

Matt - that WO was serving in a battalion at the time and was not RSS. By the way, what is the standard issue for you fine Marines?

 

[Matt_Fisher]

Westie47,

In the Marines it varies from unit to unit and currently in my unit, since we're in garrison and reserve status right now with money being a bit tighter we're down to 7 magazines issued to each Marine.   Our Tac-Vest holds 6 and one in the weapon makes 7.

However, when we went to Iraq last year it was pretty much like shopping at Wal-Mart the way our armoury was handing out magazines once we got to Kuwait.  Our scouts were carrying 10-13 mags each as a standard load.  I've pretty much gone to a setup of 8 mags on my vest and 2 with the weapon using a Mag-Cinch.

The other thing to realize is that 30-rd. AR-15/M-16 magazines here in the US are not prohibited weapons accessories as they are in Canada, so alot of guys purchase their own.   Also, losing magazines isn't as big of a deal as it is in Canada.  If you tell the armoury that you "lost" a magazine or two they'll probably give you a verbal dressing down and then give you replacements, but you've got to obviously be smart about it and it helps if you've got an NCO with you to "vouch" that the magazine was lost during training, ie. live-fire assault course, etc.

 

[KevinB]

I think 5 mags is bullshit especially for ATC - unless you are mech and just dismoutnign on the objective.
Winning the firefight is a lot more than launching a few rounds and going into Up he sees me down.  Something our trg system sadly loses track of.

A shooting buddy down south was part of the Infamous BHD raid - and even later as a LTC he had 21 mags and 18 M203 rds plus 7 mags for his 1911...

We have not had that hard reality hit home yet for Canadians - Unfortunately it is coming.

 

 

[westie47]

Kevin - I agree with you, the time is coming and some poor b*****ds are going to find out the hard way, then, maybe, THEY will realize that troops should carry at least 10 mags, and that a second gen TV will have to get made in order to carry a realistic combat load. You'd think no one high up has ever read any history! Anyway I will continue to bring my own mags into the field to supplement our meager issue, and modify my kit in order to achieve whatever mission (real or imagined) comes along.

 

[Kal]

Hey, Westie47, where did you get the other mags to supplement your issued ones?  Coming by 30rd mags here in Canada is nearly impossible and I couldn't see your unit lending them out to you........?

 

[foerestedwarrior]

You can buy them in the states cant you....ill leave it to your imagination.

 

[westie47]

I found some very cheap at a surplus store outside of Ft Lewis, Washington. $9.00 each! Getting them to the border can be a little dicy, but as long as you have a PAL (restricted) and they are going to be 'pinned'. You can have them!!

 

[Kal]

Well, I always thought you could buy some in the States then bring them over, thinking it was illegal, getting busted and possibly getting a weapons charge here at home wouldnt have been fun though...  I'm waiting on my restricted license as of now, can someone say road trip.....  Maybe in a couple weeks...

Thanks for the comments

 

[Ralph Wigum]

Hello, I am wondering in Canada can you buy 30 round C7 mags  for use if I went overseas? And if so are there any documents that are required? Where can i get them?
Thanks :gunner:

 

[Infanteer]

Nope.  Prohibited - mags pinned to five rounds is the law, AFAIK.

 

[westie47]

No you can only buy pinned mags in Canada thanks to one Mr. Mark Lapine. That way when you go on a shooting spree it forces you to get good at mag changes!

 

[Paras]

I couldnt agree with you guys more.Ive spoken to Mcpl's at my unit about the isue and all they have to say is"CF combat load is 5 mags ,so 5 mags is all you need".Its sad really that our army is so behind in mindset.

 

[Armymedic]

I couldnt agree with you guys more.Ive spoken to Mcpl's at my unit about the isue and all they have to say is"CF combat load is 5 mags ,so 5 mags is all you need".Its sad really that our army is so behind in mindset.

Correct me if I am wrong, but I do believe the cbt load is 300 rds 5.56 for a rifleman/soldier carrying a C7.

Does ammo bandoliers come in preloaded magazines?

If not then I agree with you, we should be issued more mags. But for training here in Canada, 5 is enough, and even then often just carried empty.

 

[Michael Dorosh]

No you can only buy pinned mags in Canada thanks to one Mr. Mark Lapine. That way when you go on a shooting spree it forces you to get good at mag changes!

Or unpin your mags, use illegal ones (which probably outnumber legal ones), etc....

Really think all the criminals turned in their mags, do you?   You probably think they registered their guns too....