Strike

[Spencer100]

PSSA-CFSA-RCMPSA check their numbers…

CPP: Hold my beer…

Running under a bit

Table 5. State of the superannuation accounts as at March 31 ($ millions)

Balance	Public service (2020)	RCMP (2018)	CAF (2019)
Regular Force
Account balance	91,537	13,123	45,630
Actuarial liability	98,837	14,009	48,057
Actuarial excess (shortfall)	(7,300)	(886)	(2,427)

What is the amount the employer has put in over above?

 

[Good2Golf]

I’m not sure, @dapaterson probably can speak to that far more informed than me, to wit my previous belief the Chretien have absorbed a real surplus from the CFSA fund to the General Ledger to address debt, but turn out it was only an actuarial move…although one can’t help but wonder if getting rid of an actuarial surplus in good times was worth kicking the can of an actuarial shortfall further down the road was a prudent idea…

 

[dapaterson]

The Public sector pensions have both investments and legacy amounts in the public accounts of Canada. Only looking at PSP investments or the public accounts gives an incomplete picture. OSFI reports, as I recall, include both (plus the odd RCA #2, for benefits above the maximum).

However, recent increases in interest rates are generally beneficial to DB plans.

I suspect we are about 60-70 years away from the accounts being zeroed and the costs of the plans being paid exclusively from the investment funds.

Of note, any surplus in the investment funds is addressed per the regulations and legislation; depending on the amount of surplus, there are provisions for the crown to take a contribution holiday and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

 

[Good2Golf]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

 

[lenaitch]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

I recall that it happened in OMERS, or at least the Toronto PS part of it (I don't know how that pension plan is structured). If I recall correctly, they were either reduced significantly or suspended completely for a period of time such that new hires had never experienced them on their paycheque until they were reinstated. I recall that my Ontario Pension Board deductions were reduced for a period as well.

 

[Brad Sallows]

That's it? Really the way people have talked I would have expected everything to be a lot higher. Only 5 more days off and 8.5% more pay.

Over a working lifetime, 8.5% and 5 days adds up to a lot.

 

[Brad Sallows]

If a union takes its members out on strike without a plan to get more than the employer's initial offer - and the longer the strike, the greater "more" should be - the members are being led by donkeys.

Another scenario, in which the members reject ratification of a deal and go on a few more weeks' strike and still end up with essentially the same deal, means donkeys all around.

 

[brihard]

The Public sector pensions have both investments and legacy amounts in the public accounts of Canada. Only looking at PSP investments or the public accounts gives an incomplete picture. OSFI reports, as I recall, include both (plus the odd RCA #2, for benefits above the maximum).

However, recent increases in interest rates are generally beneficial to DB plans.

I suspect we are about 60-70 years away from the accounts being zeroed and the costs of the plans being paid exclusively from the investment funds.

Of note, any surplus in the investment funds is addressed per the regulations and legislation; depending on the amount of surplus, there are provisions for the crown to take a contribution holiday and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

What exactly is RCA? I’ve seen reference to it, and I think I understand it to have something to do with pension benefits above a certain maximum RPP amount?

 

[mariomike]

and, in some cases, reduce contribution rates.

I recall that it happened in OMERS, or at least the Toronto PS part of it (I don't know how that pension plan is structured). If I recall correctly, they were either reduced significantly or suspended completely for a period of time such that new hires had never experienced them on their paycheque until they were reinstated.

I remember that. Had to look up the dates.

1998

Member and employer contribution rates decrease by two percentage points from 1st pay period of 1998, through December 31, 2002.

Member and employer contribution holiday begins pay period including August 1, 1998, through July 31, 1999.

1999

Member and employer contribution holiday extended through to December 31, 2001.

2000

Member and employer contribution holiday extended through to December 31, 2002.

2003

Contribution holiday ends with contributions reinstated, at one-third of full rates, with the first full pay period in 2003.

 

[dapaterson]

What exactly is RCA? I’ve seen reference to it, and I think I understand it to have something to do with pension benefits above a certain maximum RPP amount?

Yes, earnings above the maximum pensionable go to the RCA, another form of retirement savings. Benefits to the individual are the same, but income tax structure of the instrument is different.

For the PS / RCMP / CFSA part I folks, contribution rates are the same on the amounts above the limit, but the GoC contributions are materially more. For now, those amounts are held on the public accounts and not transferred to PSP investments, as far as I know

 

[dapaterson]

Bump: Apparently PSAC members who didn't take strike pay are now being accused of crossing the picket line. And some of them are pissed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/1jwy434/union_nonsense_2023_strike

 

[Halifax Tar]

Bump: Apparently PSAC members who didn't take strike pay are now being accused of crossing the picket line. And some of them are pissed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/1jwy434/union_nonsense_2023_strike

Are there ramifications for crossing the picket line ? Besides being a social pariah at work.

 

[OldSolduer]

Are there ramifications for crossing the picket line ? Besides being a social pariah at work.

In some extreme cases - tires slashed and physical violence

 

[dapaterson]

Are there ramifications for crossing the picket line ? Besides being a social pariah at work.

Depends whether or not you're in Saskatchewan...

 

[mariomike]

What exactly is RCA? I’ve seen reference to it, and I think I understand it to have something to do with pension benefits above a certain maximum RPP amount?

Definition of an RCA

A retirement compensation arrangement (RCA) is a plan or an arrangement under which an employer, former employer, and in some cases an employee makes contributions to a person or partnership, referred to as a custodian.

The custodian holds the funds in trust with the intent of eventually distributing them to the employee, former employee or other beneficiary on, after, or in contemplation of the following:

an employee's retirement
an employee's loss of an office or employment
any substantial change in the services the employee provides (for example, a senior corporate director who, after termination, is retained on a part time basis to teach a management course to new trainees may be considered to have substantially changed the services being provided for the purposes of the definition of an RCA)
An employer or former employer may acquire an interest in a life insurance policy (including an annuity) to fund benefits on, after, or in contemplation of any of the situations listed above. In that case, the Canada Revenue Agency (CRA) would consider the interest to be the property of an RCA and the employer to be the custodian of the RCA.

In most situations, there is one RCA trust under an RCA. For simplicity of presentation, the information in this page reflects such situations. However, there could be a situation where there is more than one RCA trust under an RCA. With regard to such situations, the information in this page should be read with necessary modifications to correspond with the Income Tax Act and the Income Tax Regulations. For help with completing Form T3-RCA, Retirement Compensation Arrangement (RCA) Part XI.3 Tax Return, and for information on the Employer responsibilities and Custodian responsibilities, call the CRA at 1-800-959-8281.

Retirement Compensation Arrangements - Canada.ca

Information for employers, and custodians of an RCA trust (custodian) regarding retirement compensation arrangements (RCA): For Employers who make contributions to a custodian; for Custodians who receive contributions for an RCA from an employee or employer, or who file a T3-RCA tax return for...

www.canada.ca

 

[Remius]

Bump: Apparently PSAC members who didn't take strike pay are now being accused of crossing the picket line. And some of them are pissed.

https://www.reddit.com/r/CanadaPublicServants/comments/1jwy434/union_nonsense_2023_strike

The only reason I went on strike was because my direct reports all went in strike so wanted to support them. This sort of thing why they went on strike in the first place because they felt coerced. I have two colleagues who did not go on strike for their own reasons.

Support for that strike was not very high. At least where I was.

 

[Halifax Tar]

In some extreme cases - tires slashed and physical violence

Ya I would suspect some of that.

Depends whether or not you're in Saskatchewan...

You lost me homeboy.

Are there any professional ramifications for crossing the line instead of striking with your union mates ?

 

[Remius]

Ya I would suspect some of that.



You lost me homeboy.

Are there any professional ramifications for crossing the line instead of striking with your union mates ?

The union can try and fine members. Except it isn’t supported by law anywhere but in Saskatchewan.

 

[dapaterson]

Ya I would suspect some of that.



You lost me homeboy.

Are there any professional ramifications for crossing the line instead of striking with your union mates ?

The union may discipline members, up to and including kicking them out. However, the individuals remain obliged to contribute to the union (Rand formula, as reinforced by Lavigne v OPSEU), and the union maintains the legal obligation to represent and support the individual through grievances etc.

The unions have constitutions, regulations and bylaws which call for fines in the amount of pay recieved when crossing picket lines; however, those are unenforceable other than in Saskatchewan.

 

[Halifax Tar]

The union may discipline members, up to and including kicking them out. However, the individuals remain obliged to contribute to the union (Rand formula, as reinforced by Lavigne v OPSEU), and the union maintains the legal obligation to represent and support the individual through grievances etc.

The unions have constitutions, regulations and bylaws which call for fines in the amount of pay recieved when crossing picket lines; however, those are unenforceable other than in Saskatchewan.

So you can be fined and kicked out of the union for not supporting it, but you have to keep contributing union dues and you still get all the benefits ? What a strange beast.