Students fighting punishment after Laxative cupcake prank discovered

[Harley Sailor]

Ah,one of my favourite topics.  Maybe if parental discipline hadn't been legislated out of existence, we may have a prayer.  I was scared shitless of my old man too, all he had to do was point at his old army belt hanging on the back door, and the message was received, 5X5.  He maybe used it 3 times in my life with him, but they were enough.  With kids help lines and DCFS just a (parentally provided) cell phone call away, people are terrified to get a grip on their little shit critters.

As with you, this is one of my Favourite Topics.  I was charged with assaulting my kid.  A store walker at a Wal*** seen me get my kid's attention and didn't like the way I did it.  The police were call and I was charged.  When we went to court I found out that I had not done anything wrong.  $6000.00 and the loss of my kids later (they went back to their welfare mother) I found out what I believed all along.  Parents/Guardians are still allowed to discipline as long as it is 1. Not in excess, 2. For discipline reasons and 3. The child can understand why it is being done.  I also found out that people in authority are still allowed as well, meaning police, firemen, doctors, and yes teachers.  The problem is that no one wants to spend the $6000 to $10,000 it would take to prove they were in the right.  That and what teacher would take the chance of loosing their job.

 

[c_canuk]

Now, for some, it becomes you're picking on my child or my child wouldn't act like that. As if I have nothing better to do that to pick on your kid 

I feel you, but from my point of view due to my experiences in the school system, teachers are going to have to provide more proof than their word to me that my child is a problem.

I remember a good number of teachers setting me up for a beating with my father, not because I had done something wrong but it was easier for them to call me a trouble maker for:

not being a good little boy and letting the bully victimize me quietly
demanding they put a stop to it after we got into a tussle for the umpteenth time like we were told to every year when we got our child abuse/bullying briefing
turning a blind eye to theft and calling me a trouble maker for making a big deal about it and not just accepting that I was a victim.
objecting to being the one to clean up messes created by other students just because I would actually listen to the teacher instead of flipping her off.

It's not right to make the next generation of teachers and administrators pay for the previous generations sins, but I'll be damned if I punish my children for refusing to be a victim just because it's less work for the teachers/administrators to get me to dicipline my child than to get the parents of the true problems dicipline theirs.

This wasn't just one person or one school either, this was a problem with about 1 in 4 teachers and 3 of 4 teachers in administrative positions in several different schools and the administrators at UNB SJ and NBCC, though the professors/instructors at both of those institutions were excellent.

 

[Harley Sailor]

Sounds to me like the same thing was happening to you at more then one school.  This begs the question "were all the schools in the wrong or was it just your way of thinking?"

 

[c_canuk]

seems to me you're making a hell of an assumption that every school I attended was like that, it wasn't.

if someone steals my property, I complain to the teacher about it, they tell me to "deal with it" so I complain above their head and my dad gets called because I'm disruptive who it causing the problem here?

I was told to deal with it because it was easier to tell me to accept it and move on than to take the scissors from the routine troublemaker, see my name engraved on them then give them back to me, and deal with the theft. The scissors were the item that broke the camels back after several instances of different peers looting my desk.

When I went over their head for encouraging theft and victimization the administration sided with the teacher and retaliated by telling my father I was repeatedly walking out of class, goofing off, ignoring the teachers and causing disruptions. all of that was complete BS as none of my actions took place during class time.

that's one example.

I learned early on that some teachers would take the easiest path, not the right one. And that I was at a disadvantage because my father was willing to beat the snot out of me if the teacher claimed I was a problem, while the students who were causing problems had parents who didn't do a thing. I ended up through the actions of a few but ever present bad teachers being suspicious of all teachers, and I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.

If you are claiming that refusing to shut up and be a victim is being a problem I'm going to have to disagree as I think that apathy is an overwhelming cause of the degradation of your society today.

 

[Harley Sailor]

This wasn't just one person or one school either, this was a problem with about 1 in 4 teachers and 3 of 4 teachers in administrative positions in several different schools and the administrators at UNB SJ and NBCC, though the professors/instructors at both of those institutions were excellent.

I believe this is where I got my ideas from.

I always ask myself "why are they picking on him and why is no one doing anything about it?"  I could get into how whiners in school get picked on, or how tattle tails get picked on, or how some people just bring it on them selves, but I'm sure you already know all that.  And why was no one doing anything about it?  Well lets see, tired of hearing all the complaints, not convinced it wasn't brought on by ones self, or is he just looking for attention?

Then there is "the squeaky wheel gets the grease."  Well sometimes the grease is not always the kind we are looking for.

 

[CountDC]

The answer is to put more discipline back in the schools.  I know, no one wants the teachers to discipline their kids.  Well someone has to and if the parents won't, who will? 

YES!! Better the schools be the parent substitute instead of someone on the street.  Kids these days do a lot more than in my time because they know the law protects them.  Even had a smart mouth say to me "what you gonna do call the cops?  So what, nutting they can do cause I only 12 and protected by young offenders."  Mind you he did run when I pointed out that the young offenders act did not protect him from me.

 

[ex-Sup]

I feel you, but from my point of view due to my experiences in the school system, teachers are going to have to provide more proof than their word to me that my child is a problem.

Okay, so my blood pressure just went through the roof.

Now I cannot comment on what happened to you in your situation; teachers are people too and there are those that do things that are not professional. However, to paint us all with the same brush really gets me worked up. My parents taught me to be hardworking, honest and committed. I love my job, and trust me it isn't easy. Everyday that I come to work I bring the same sense to dedication and professionalism to my job. I care about the students at my school and I try to be as compassionate as possible to their problems and concerns. When you question my word, you are questioning my integrity as a teacher and I have a serious problem with that. If I am calling home because your kid is being a problem, you can rest assured that it is an issue because as I mentioned in my previous post, I have much better things to do with my time. I teach, I'm a dept head and I coach football...I don't have time for crap.

I learned early on that some teachers would take the easiest path, not the right one. And that I was at a disadvantage because my father was willing to beat the snot out of me if the teacher claimed I was a problem, while the students who were causing problems had parents who didn't do a thing. I ended up through the actions of a few but ever present bad teachers being suspicious of all teachers, and I will not give them the benefit of the doubt.

I would venture a few. Once again it's unfortunate that you had to go through this, but your attitudes and perception are causing problems as well. You are basically doing the same thing in reverse. In my 10+ years I have had few confrontations with parents, but those few have left an indelible mark. These parents came across as having a huge chip on their shoulder towards teachers and it's obviously rubbing off on their kids. Hey, I don't let the actions of a few parents cloud my view of my students and their parents. Maybe this might work for you.

 

[c_canuk]

ex Sup

I understand your position, and you are right, you shouldn't have to prove your integrity.

I'm just saying I'm not going to punish my child over a 30 second phone call, I'm going to want to have an interview with the teacher in question, with little johnny present and have a polite chat about it.

There is no excuse for a student to mouth off to a teacher and even if they don't agree with the teacher they still must respect the teacher.

I will not let any child of mine get away with actually being a problem, but I'm not willing to let my child be punished for refusing to be a victim of apathy either.

I understand the challenges teachers go through these days, 2 of my close friends are teachers just starting their careers, one is my best friend since grade 5 and fully supports my position and knows exactly what I mean about certain teachers suffering from destructive apathy.

Please don't take from this that I'm automatically suspicious of all teachers, just that I will want details of the situation and will expect that if it was grave enough to call me about, we can have a meeting about it to discuss how to resolve the situation.

My father was just as much at fault as the teachers in automatically assuming they were right. I'm amazed he trusted the teachers at all after some of the stories my mother told me about what he went through at school. Glad the days where the teacher could stand behind you while you were doing math exersizes and clip you around the ears for making a mistake were long gone once I got into the system.

 

[ex-Sup]

C-Canuk,

I certainly appreciate your comments. Unfortunately there are some parents that allow their kids to or let them get away with disrespecting us. Teachers will generally have no problems meeting with a parent and the admin if it is a serious  issue. And yes, there is no need for teachers to physically repremand students, but unfortunately some have taken liberties with the current situation. As I've mentioned before, most kids are good and most parents are supportive. We just frustrated with the ones that aren't.