Sudan 2023 Thread- Discussion on Our Evacuation Capabilities

Ottawa deploys rapid deployment team to Djibouti to provide emergency response
The Canadian Press · Posted: Apr 21, 2023 11:10 PM EDT | Last Updated: April 21

Minister of Foreign Affairs Mélanie Joly, pictured in Ottawa last month, says the Canadian Embassy in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, has temporarily suspended in-person operations due to security concerns. (Justin Tang/The Canadian Press)

The federal government says it has deployed members of its Global Affairs Standing Rapid Deployment Team to Djibouti due to the volatile and rapidly deteriorating situation in Sudan.

Foreign Affairs Minister Mélanie Joly said the Canadian Embassy in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, has temporarily suspended in-person operations.

The Rapid Deployment Team can provide emergency response, co-ordination, consular assistance and logistical support, she said.

The federal government says the Department of National Defence and the Canadian Armed Forces are also planning for contingencies but gave no further details.

Roughly 1,500 Canadians registered in Sudan
On Thursday, Joly said Canada has no means of evacuating citizens from Sudan, where violence has drastically escalated between the country's army and its rival paramilitary force.

Global Affairs Canada has said it knows of roughly 1,500 Canadians registered as being in the northeast African country.

"The situation in Sudan is volatile and deteriorating rapidly," Joly said in a news release on Friday. "Canada continues to call for an end to violence and stands with the Sudanese people as they strive for peace.

"We are actively monitoring the situation in Sudan and working with neighbouring countries, as well as with like-minded governments and the international community to co-ordinate the response to this crisis."

Smoke fills the sky in Khartoum on Friday. Joly said Canada has no means of evacuating citizens from Sudan, where violence has drastically escalated between the country's army and its rival paramilitary force. (Maheen S./The Associated Press)

Joly said consular services remain available to Canadians in Sudan, but due to the security situation, these could be limited.

Officials in Ottawa are in regular contact with Canadians there, providing them with information and advice as the situation develops, she said.

The United States and other countries anticipate the violence to escalate and have been preparing to evacuate their citizens in Sudan.

Some of the heaviest fighting has been over airports.

The Pentagon has moved a small number of troops to a base in Djibouti to support an evacuation.

Gen. Mark Milley, chair of the U.S. joint chiefs of staff, discussed the situation with defence officials from Germany, Italy and Canada at a gathering in Germany on Friday, a U.S. official said.

One topic was ensuring that any potential evacuation efforts did not conflict. The official spoke on condition of anonymity to describe the deliberations.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/sudan-unrest-volatile-joly-1.6819292

 

[KevinB]

All you need is one 18 year old head banger with an RPG and that door will close pretty fast.

That door however might ‘reopen’ in the form of a very large crater…

 

[Furniture]

Canadian military unlikely to conduct airlifts out of Sudan past this week: officials - Wings Magazine

Ottawa is unlikely to evacuate citizens from Sudan after this week, officials say, though it is not clear when Canadian planes will actually start

www.wingsmagazine.com

Interesting parts in this article that are relevant to future NEOs:

1. Diplomatic Clearances. Goes with out saying but the staffing, experience and resources issues at GAC directly impact the CAFs ability to do tasks when and where we want or need the cooperation of foreign states for overflight and landing permissions.

2. Joint Operations specifically in relation to high readiness. Our aircraft had to be pulled together from Japan, the Arctic etc. Our fleets snd crews are stretched over the globe with routine tasks and we have no strategic reserve it would seem. Our high readiness forces aren’t joint in nature due to that it would appear.

Two other thoughts from the article.

We seem to be stuck as the CAF and DND in only saying numbers of personnel deployed, ie 200. Interestingly this is not inclusive of the deployed aircrew etc. my issue is that while making sense perhaps from OPSEC it doesn’t help the institution connect our units and our personnel to the Canadian public and our potential recruits.

Final thought is that overall given the CAFs personnel shortfalls, equipment deficiencies, lack of actual real high readiness capabilities etc. they actually responded fairly quickly once given the word to go.

Ironically that relative success might very well prevent much in terms of sober examination once this is over.

Without giving details, I'll just say that when I was in Trenton attending the W Comd CUBs, I was surprised by how stretched our transport capabilities were on an average week.

As is typical of the CAF, we bought just enough to get the job done when things go according to plan.

 

[OldSolduer]

Without giving details, I'll just say that when I was in Trenton attending the W Comd CUBs, I was surprised by how stretched our transport capabilities were on an average week.

As is typical of the CAF, we bought just enough to get the job done when things go according to plan.

AND adding this - if any emergency arises it tosses Murphy and his laws into the system.

 

[KevinB]

As is typical of the CAF, we did not buy enough to just get the job done when things go according to plan.

Would you accept my slight correction

I say that as looking at the Polaris, C-17, C-130 fleets and planned MRTT acquisition, I still don’t see that being able to do everything the CAF has been committed to.

Doubling it all would just about get there.

 

[Furniture]

Would you accept my slight correction

I say that as looking at the Polaris, C-17, C-130 fleets and planned MRTT acquisition, I still don’t see that being able to do everything the CAF has been committed to.

Doubling it all would just about get there.

Fair point, I should have been more precise. We have just enough to barely keep up with what we are doing, not what we are supposed to be doing.

 

[Quirky]

Doubling it all would just about get there.

Doubling all the airframes would just make for a fantastic looking ramp in Trenton. You'll still never find enough pilots, techs and support stuff to keep those things flying, never mind enough housing in Trenton which has massive waiting lists for the personnel shortage we are in now. We are utterly f**ked in all aspects of operations.

 

[YZT580]

Fair point, I should have been more precise. We have just enough to barely keep up with what we are doing, not what we are supposed to be doing.

There aren't enough C17s to establish any kind of an overseas airlift needing more than a flight or two so the hercs are run ragged. It seems that mechanical breakdowns are normal business: that speaks of either poor maintenance or overworked airframes with the later being the more likely. We have no reserves whatsoever and several of the airframes we do have are tasked with SAR, reducing the pool even further.

 

[KevinB]

Doubling all the airframes would just make for a fantastic looking ramp in Trenton. You'll still never find enough pilots, techs and support stuff to keep those things flying, never mind enough housing in Trenton which has massive waiting lists for the personnel shortage we are in now. We are utterly f**ked in all aspects of operations.

In the ideal world, you’d have several different airheads and the personnel to man and support the aircraft.

 

[OldSolduer]

In the ideal world, you’d have several different airheads and the personnel to man and support the aircraft.

Canada - this nation has never taken defense matters seriously until it has to. From its inception Canada has always asked "Who will pay? It can't be us!!!" Yet we LOOK DOWN OUR NOSES at the USA proclaiming "We are soooo much better". There are some aspects of the USA I admire - and they are Canada's closest neighbor and ally and trading partner. Now having said that there are some aspects of the USA I would not want to see here.

 

[Quirky]

There aren't enough C17s to establish any kind of an overseas airlift needing more than a flight or two so the hercs are run ragged. It seems that mechanical breakdowns are normal business: that speaks of either poor maintenance or overworked airframes with the later being the more likely. We have no reserves whatsoever and several of the airframes we do have are tasked with SAR, reducing the pool even further.

Mechanical issues are random and can happen with new, barely used airframes that's meticulously maintained as well.

 

[Halifax Tar]

Without giving details, I'll just say that when I was in Trenton attending the W Comd CUBs, I was surprised by how stretched our transport capabilities were on an average week.

As is typical of the CAF, we bought just enough to get the job done when things go according to plan.

I think the RCN should buy the RCAF 4 cargo planes. The RCAF can use them, but when the RCN needs them to fly parts and people all over gods blue Earth we need to be given the priority for those AC.

FYI we could use them constantly.

 

[childs56]

Doubling all the airframes would just make for a fantastic looking ramp in Trenton. You'll still never find enough pilots, techs and support stuff to keep those things flying, never mind enough housing in Trenton which has massive waiting lists for the personnel shortage we are in now. We are utterly f**ked in all aspects of operations.

Who says they need to be in Trenton, send a couple to Comox, a couple to Greenwood and few others staged over seas, Hire Air Reserve Pilots and techs/ Contract out and vola problem solved. Errrrr well maybe not. Offering $60,000 a year to work for L3 is not going to attract Skilled workers. Ref Job post for Techs to work in Comox and Cold Lake.

 

[dimsum]

RCAF 4 cargo planes

Which 4? We have 5 C-17s.

It also operates C-130J, C-130H, etc.

 

[dapaterson]

CC-150 can also do strat cargo lift.

But if the RCN is volunteering the money for more strat airlift and volunteering the necessary PYs for them - say by reducing the size of the CSC buy...

And if the RCN constantly needs to fly parts around the world, they may want to think about proper maintenance cycles instead.

 

[KevinB]

CC-150 can also do strat cargo lift.

But if the RCN is volunteering the money for more strat airlift and volunteering the necessary PYs for them - say by reducing the size of the CSC buy...

And if the RCN constantly needs to fly parts around the world, they may want to think about proper maintenance cycles instead.

I think a Support Ship with a bunch of spares might be more practical and definitely faster to get parts.

 

[KevinB]

Which 4? We have 5 C-17s.

It also operates C-130J, C-130H, etc.

I think he meant the RCN should buy the RCAF 4 new planes.

 

[GK .Dundas]

Fo

I think a Support Ship with a bunch of spares might be more practical and definitely faster to get parts.

The RAN until fairly recently used to have a destroyer tender. Also if memory serves we used to have at least two maintenance ships as well.

 

[dimsum]

I think he meant the RCN should buy the RCAF 4 new planes.

In that case they should be flown by RCN personnel?

 

[OldSolduer]

In that case they should be flown by RCN personnel?

Why not?

 

[dimsum]

Why not?

Something something "everything that flies [with people in it] is under the RCAF"

But I digress. Back to Sudan.