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TF0308-work up training length

Jarnhamar

Army.ca Myth
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I have a question about the Task Force going to Afghanistan in 2008 (3RCR).

Reserve soldiers augmenting the battlegroup on stream 1 headed to pet between January and March I was told.  I was a little confused because they said they were only deploying in August 2008. I thought that was a long time but it made sence when it comes to getting them qualified on courses and such. 

Stream 3 of the reserves (security platoon force protection etc..) arrives in Petawawa in September. I was under the impression that that would mean 6 months of work up training, deploying around Feb/March. I was just recently told that their deployment date, too, was in August.  Does that mean it's actually 12 months of "work up" training followed by the 6 month tour?
 
FP Platoon works on a different rotation schedule then the BG. The Avg length of work up has been about 6-9 months deepending on who you ask and what you factor in.

The OMLT also works on a different schedule as well but I do not know if that falls into the scope of PRes augmentation.

On the bright side Everyone get's to go to wonderful wainwright man I miss that place so much, so relevant so useful.........  ::)
 
Stream 1 (BG positions) is already in Pet.  They will deploy in Aug 08.

Streams 2 and 3 (FP Coy and others) report to Pet in September 07 for deployments in June to August 08.

Stream 4 (individuals) report to Pet in January 08 for deployments as early as May 08.

Remember that FP and the BG don't rotate in/out at the same time.  This is for the same reason that not all cops handover their shifts at the same time.

(sources: http://www.army.gc.ca/tf-3-08/soldier-reserve-activation.html and http://www.army.gc.ca/tf-3-08/soldier-pre-deployment-streams.html)
 
Something to add for pers picked up for streams 2 and 3-

Our unit Ops staff have CFTPO positions for us, but they will likely not reflect our actual position on the tour down to unit and subunit level. The current position enables us to be paid and employed. While they may accurately represent whether we're with the battlegroup or the NSE, anything beyond that is pretty much a placeholder until the 'real' CFTPO positions open up later down the road. If you're in a crappy or a great job right now, don't get too worked up- it may chang. If you're confirmed for 2 or 3, that's all you know for certain; everything else is watch and shoot.
 
Brihard said:
Something to add for pers picked up for streams 2 and 3-

Our unit Ops staff have CFTPO positions for us, but they will likely not reflect our actual position on the tour down to unit and subunit level. The current position enables us to be paid and employed. While they may accurately represent whether we're with the battlegroup or the NSE, anything beyond that is pretty much a placeholder until the 'real' CFTPO positions open up later down the road. If you're in a crappy or a great job right now, don't get too worked up- it may chang. If you're confirmed for 2 or 3, that's all you know for certain; everything else is watch and shoot.

Man - that's gotta be hard - and I'm not trying to be a smartass here.

I spent my career in Reg Force, with very little exposure to you Reserve guys.  Since I've been paying attention to your issues (at least here on milnet.ca), I've begun to have a whole new level of respect for what you do.

I can't imagine not knowing whether you'll be employed or not, but still volunteering to do it.

You Reserve folks are amazing - and I salute you (FWIW).


Roy
 
Thanks for the nod, Roy.  :salute:

Unfortunately, the huge work up training times are having the effect of making it pretty much impossible for people with career type jobs or heavy commitments to go on deployment.  There are a great many skill sets in the Reserves, and there are also a great many that would be willing to go over with a three month work up and six month deployment.  However, asking someone to take a massive pay cut for upwards of a year during work up training, leave their family behind while they go do drills over and over is unreasonable.  And no, it isn't the same as the Regs, because they can move their families to where they are and still see them.  If I get sent to Petawawa for six months, how many weekends can I drive to Windsor?  That's a ten hour drive one way. 
As well, I hear repeatedly from guys that have come back that much of the work up training is "time wasting" until you get out west.  In all honesty, if you were to take a motivated and fit person off the street could you not get them ready for combat in that same time frame?  So basically it doesn't matter what we did in the PRes or for how long.  We are all back to ground zero until proven otherwise. 
I see this having the effect of drawing in the Res members that are students and/or have dead end jobs.  Which is great for them, but as stated leaves many of the rest of us out in the cold. 
Maybe it does take that long, and maybe it is that complicated.  But all I have been hearing for a while now is that there is no doctrine and everything changes week to week.  So it would seem as though it is simply a case of get your gunnery up to speed,  be flexible and switched on.
Do you need six months to a year to do that?  I don't presume to know the answer, and would be interested in finding out. 
 
Roy Harding said:
Man - that's gotta be hard - and I'm not trying to be a smartass here.

I spent my career in Reg Force, with very little exposure to you Reserve guys.  Since I've been paying attention to your issues (at least here on milnet.ca), I've begun to have a whole new level of respect for what you do.

I can't imagine not knowing whether you'll be employed or not, but still volunteering to do it.

You Reserve folks are amazing - and I salute you (FWIW).


Roy

It's not quite so bad as it was before, Roy. 3-08 seems to have been relatively well administered so far, at least from our end of things. Timelines for self identification were reasonable, and they offered four 'streams' for employment. Some volunteered to start training in May or June, and were integrated directly into RegF rifle companies, and will remain so until the end of the tour (except a couple who were yanked out to be sent on PLQ Infantry- but that's another story).

The second and third streams are those of us who have self identified for Sept 1st. The only difference between 2 and 3 is whether you're doing area run courses this summer, which seems a bit dumb. There may or may not be some administrative or bureaucratic reason for the differentiation, but I don't really know or care. Stream 2 and 3 mostly look to be headed to the national support element; my placeholder spot, for instance, is a 'weapon operator' in a security platoon, which from the breakdown of CFTPO slots I interpret as an RG-31 gunner, though I may be out to lunch. A few more may be picked up for RegF Rifle coys depending on how the regs fare in the DAG process, but that's very much watch and shoot.

Stream 4 is a January commencement of service, for six months workup and six months deployment. They'll spend almost all of their time behind the wire guarding KAF or Camp Nathan Smith, or at least that's what it sounds like now.

We have a pretty solid confirmation that we'll be employed (paid, if not necessarily utilized throughout) in one capacity or another frmo our date of arrival to the end of the tour. The variable is our actual task on roto. Naturally most of us are hoping for (and probably won't get) a slot in a rifle platoon, but we'll see how it breaks down. In either case, lots of us have stepped up to fill in the second tier roles outside the wire, convoy excort, force protection, etc. The numbers from the reserve units are rather astounding- my regiment had about 43 (all ranks) self identify for all streams (or at least that was the count when I delivered the stream 2 and 3 applications to brigade), and while some of those may drop out, more will ID for january sometime this fall. This is for a unit that actively parades maybe 60 riflemen on a decent night, plus leadership and admin.

There are still horror stories out there of people who did their six months workup, then got told "Yeah, sorry, we don't need you. Peace." This time, the brigades have been adamant that anyone who self IDs and gets accepted into a position WILL deploy in some capacity or another- but we'll wait and see.not yet into a career. Those with 'real' careers (and I mean no disrespect to anyone by saying that) who are deploying generally work for someone with a favourable view towards military service, ie government, etc.

Watching the entire process is going to be interesting. Due to the numbers, I anticipate that 3-08 will become a significant case study in the use of today's reserve force for augmenting deployment. There will be a lot of lessons learned out of this, most of them well above my pay grade. ;)

There's some truth to what Zipperhead mentioned- the greater part of those of us deploying are students or
 
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