The Army wants to get the load soldiers carry down to 55 pounds

[daftandbarmy]

Better logistics systems, lighter loads for the Infantry... but up to 100lbs will still be carried from time to time.



Army leaders say that the service’s new “squad as a system” approach to kitting our soldiers with less gadgets could cut down on the total gear infantrymen have to carry.

The Army wants to reduce the amount of equipment that close combat soldiers, like the infantry, have to carry. The obvious perks are that a lighter soldier can move (and fight) faster, is less likely to injure themselves carrying everything and the kitchen sink, and has less gear to worry about getting in trouble for losing.

“No longer will we hang things on them like we hang things on a Christmas tree,” Brig. Gen. Phil Kiniery, commandant of the Army’s Infantry School at Fort Benning, Georgia, told Task & Purpose in a statement. “In some cases, we’re giving our forces redundant capabilities at the squad level, the platoon level, and the company level. Is that necessary, effective, and efficient? In some cases, the answer will be yes, and in some cases no.”

The Army wants to get the load soldiers carry down to 55 pounds

The Army wants to cut down on redundant and excess equipment that its soldiers carry into battle, hoping that none carry more than 55 pounds.

taskandpurpose.com

 

[OldSolduer]

Better logistics systems, lighter loads for the Infantry... but up to 100lbs will still be carried from time to time.



Army leaders say that the service’s new “squad as a system” approach to kitting our soldiers with less gadgets could cut down on the total gear infantrymen have to carry.

The Army wants to reduce the amount of equipment that close combat soldiers, like the infantry, have to carry. The obvious perks are that a lighter soldier can move (and fight) faster, is less likely to injure themselves carrying everything and the kitchen sink, and has less gear to worry about getting in trouble for losing.

“No longer will we hang things on them like we hang things on a Christmas tree,” Brig. Gen. Phil Kiniery, commandant of the Army’s Infantry School at Fort Benning, Georgia, told Task & Purpose in a statement. “In some cases, we’re giving our forces redundant capabilities at the squad level, the platoon level, and the company level. Is that necessary, effective, and efficient? In some cases, the answer will be yes, and in some cases no.”

The Army wants to get the load soldiers carry down to 55 pounds

The Army wants to cut down on redundant and excess equipment that its soldiers carry into battle, hoping that none carry more than 55 pounds.

taskandpurpose.com

How many years have we said this?

Staff officers in higher HQs have no business telling COs what troops have to carry. Let the CO and his staff figure it out.

 

[AmmoTech90]

Staff officers in higher HQs have no business telling COs what troops have to carry. Let the CO and his staff figure it out.

If only that was the way. I've done two roto 0s, and when I asked the Ops O how much ammo they wanted me to order they didn't know.

 

[OldSolduer]

If only that was the way. I've done two roto 0s, and when I asked the Ops O how much ammo they wanted me to order they didn't know.

No kidding - the good idea fairies don't always have good ideas.

 

[CountDC]

If only that was the way. I've done two roto 0s, and when I asked the Ops O how much ammo they wanted me to order they didn't know.

There is your problem, you asked the Ops O instead of the Ops WO

 

[KevinB]

How many years have we said this?

Staff officers in higher HQs have no business telling COs what troops have to carry. Let the CO and his staff figure it out.

Well the goal is to drive new gear and support systems. Most command teams may not know what is coming down the pipe or what has been developed since the last time they were actively out humping and jumping.

 

[Kirkhill]

US Army Maps Out Next Evolution of Its Robotic Mule Program

S-MET is a radio-controlled, eight-wheeled robotic logistics platform supporting Infantry Brigade Combat Teams, EOD units, and Security Force Assistance Brigades.

nextgendefense.com

This dicussion almost invariably brings out the comment that when the army moves to lighten the load with lighter kit the 100 lb ruck becomes filled with 100 lbs of light stuff.

Looking at these pictures it seems that even when the troops have their own personal CQ vehicle accompanying them they are still humping 100 lb rucks.

The same problem shows up with 5 tonne LUVs.

Given the opportunity everybody will carry everything "just in case".

 

[GR66]

This dicussion almost invariably brings out the comment that when the army moves to lighten the load with lighter kit the 100 lb ruck becomes filled with 100 lbs of light stuff.

Looking at these pictures it seems that even when the troops have their own personal CQ vehicle accompanying them they are still humping 100 lb rucks.

The same problem shows up with 5 tonne LUVs.

Given the opportunity everybody will carry everything "just in case".

Maybe part of the problem is that soldier load is looked at as an issue distinct from logistics/resupply. The reason soldiers want to carry everything they might conceivably need is that there isn't enough trust that the supply system can get them what they need as quickly as they need it.

Having an electric mule with you allows you to carry more stuff. Having a combat "Door Dash" system that can reliably get you what you need when you need it would allow you to carry less stuff.

 

[Kirkhill]

Maybe part of the problem is that soldier load is looked at as an issue distinct from logistics/resupply. The reason soldiers want to carry everything they might conceivably need is that there isn't enough trust that the supply system can get them what they need as quickly as they need it.

Having an electric mule with you allows you to carry more stuff. Having a combat "Door Dash" system that can reliably get you what you need when you need it would allow you to carry less stuff.

Most of the "just in case"is ultimately focused on making problems disappear.

Which is a preferred solution? Another box of link on your electric mule? A CQ with a drone to deliver another box of link? Or a cab rank of loitering munitions circling overhead with an array of payloads and warheads you can call on when you encounter a problem?

Door Dash can mean different things. It can mean the delivery of the ingredients so that you can make your lunch or it can mean delivery of a hot, ready to eat meal with a can of cold beer.

 

[Kirkhill]

Take this new toy as an example.

...

"Hellhound S3 Packs Anti-Tank Firepower Into a Soldier’s Rucksack​

"Built using 3D printing, the Hellhound S3 is a turbojet-powered, vertically launched system that can be reconfigured for a wide range of mission profiles.

"Operators can adapt it as a loitering munition, a precision-guided weapon, or a one-way attack drone, giving forces greater flexibility on the battlefield.

"Soldiers can reportedly switch between configurations in under two minutes without tools, swapping modular payloads that provide armor-piercing, electronic warfare, or blast-fragmentation effects.

"The system can engage targets at ranges up to 60 kilometers (37.3 miles) and reach speeds of 384 miles (618 kilometers) per hour."

Hellhound S3 Packs Anti-Tank Firepower Into a Soldier’s Rucksack

The Hellhound S3 system delivers modular, backpack-portable firepower, enabling troops to engage armored targets with reconfigurable payloads.

nextgendefense.com

....

Why would anybody put anything with a 60 km range that can cover that distance in 5 or 6 minutes on the back of a 6 kmh soldier who will take two or three days to cover the same ground even if nobody is shooting at them?

It seems to me that having lots of those in the rear with the gear to permit the maintenance of a dense array of solutions in flight does not require troops at the front to be humping them one at a time.

There are advantages to moving the launch points forward to increase the loiter time but given the range and kill-zones/no-man's-lands 10-20 km deep suggests to me that they could be launched by the CQ with an electric mule to carry a bunch, or back with the battalion mortars who have heavy vehicles and a solid link to the BMA.

 

[OldSolduer]

Given the opportunity everybody will carry everything "just in case".

And people tend to have overactive imaginations - "Just in case" is sometimes conjures up the preposterous.

 

[daftandbarmy]

US Army Maps Out Next Evolution of Its Robotic Mule Program

S-MET is a radio-controlled, eight-wheeled robotic logistics platform supporting Infantry Brigade Combat Teams, EOD units, and Security Force Assistance Brigades.

nextgendefense.com

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This dicussion almost invariably brings out the comment that when the army moves to lighten the load with lighter kit the 100 lb ruck becomes filled with 100 lbs of light stuff.

Looking at these pictures it seems that even when the troops have their own personal CQ vehicle accompanying them they are still humping 100 lb rucks.

The same problem shows up with 5 tonne LUVs.

Given the opportunity everybody will carry everything "just in case".

YMMV... but I've discovered that while the troops might start off an operation/ exercise with the 'kitchen sink', over a fairly short period of time they will happily tailor their load to the needs of the moment and shed alot of unnecessary gear. Better, more experienced troops needs less stuff.

What is also often downplayed, because we love being so 'egalitarian' these days and tend to baby people out of fear that careers are at stake, is that tougher, better trained and more self-reliant troops need less stuff ... e.g.,

A translation of a document captured from a German parachute trooper who was taken prisoner in Greece...

The "Ten Commandments" of the Parachute Rifleman

1. You are the elite of the German Army. For you, combat shall be fulfillment. You shall seek it out and train yourself to stand any test.

2. Cultivate true comradeship, for together with your comrades you will triumph or die.

3. Be shy of speech and incorruptible. Men act, women chatter; chatter will bring you to the grave.

4. Calm and caution, vigor and determination, valor and a fanatical offensive spirit will make you superior in attack.

5. In facing the foe, ammunition is the most precious thing. He who shoots uselessly, merely to reassure himself, is a man without guts. He is a weakling and does not deserve the title of parachutist.

6. Never surrender. Your honor lies in Victory or Death.

7. Only with good weapons can you have success. So look after them on the principle—First my weapons, then myself.

8. You must grasp the full meaning of an operation so that, should your leader fall by the way, you can carry it out with coolness and caution.

9. Fight chivalrously against an honest foe; armed irregulars deserve no quarter.

10. With your eyes open, keyed up to top pitch, agile as a greyhound, tough as leather, hard as Krupp steel, you will be the embodiment of a German warrior.

 

[SeaKingTacco]

YMMV... but I've discovered that while the troops might start off an operation/ exercise with the 'kitchen sink', over a fairly short period of time they will happily tailor their load to the needs of the moment and shed alot of unnecessary gear. Better, more experienced troops needs less stuff.

What is also often downplayed, because we love being so 'egalitarian' these days and tend to baby people out of fear that careers are at stake, is that tougher, better trained and more self-reliant troops need less stuff ... e.g.,

A translation of a document captured from a German parachute trooper who was taken prisoner in Greece...

The "Ten Commandments" of the Parachute Rifleman

1. You are the elite of the German Army. For you, combat shall be fulfillment. You shall seek it out and train yourself to stand any test.

2. Cultivate true comradeship, for together with your comrades you will triumph or die.

3. Be shy of speech and incorruptible. Men act, women chatter; chatter will bring you to the grave.

4. Calm and caution, vigor and determination, valor and a fanatical offensive spirit will make you superior in attack.

5. In facing the foe, ammunition is the most precious thing. He who shoots uselessly, merely to reassure himself, is a man without guts. He is a weakling and does not deserve the title of parachutist.

6. Never surrender. Your honor lies in Victory or Death.

7. Only with good weapons can you have success. So look after them on the principle—First my weapons, then myself.

8. You must grasp the full meaning of an operation so that, should your leader fall by the way, you can carry it out with coolness and caution.

9. Fight chivalrously against an honest foe; armed irregulars deserve no quarter.

10. With your eyes open, keyed up to top pitch, agile as a greyhound, tough as leather, hard as Krupp steel, you will be the embodiment of a German warrior.

Your point, is, what?

 

[rmc_wannabe]

Your point, is, what?

I think D&B is pointing out that combat operations, generally, suck

 

[SeaKingTacco]

I think D&B is pointing out that combat operations, generally, suck

Sure, but rules for a WW2 german paratrooper conduct don’t really inform the debate on how to get a soldier’s load reduced.

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sure, but rules for a WW2 german paratrooper conduct don’t really inform the debate on how to get a soldier’s load reduced.

Strongly disagree, old chap.

Softies need alot of stuff... 'Friendly forces fanatics' on the other hand

 

[SeaKingTacco]

Strongly disagree, old chap.

Softies need alot of stuff... 'Friendly forces fanatics' on the other hand

Sorry- I am particularly stupid today, obviously, and am not following the bouncing ball very well.

How does a german paratrooper from WW2 inform us today on how to reduce soldier carriage loads?

 

[McG]

The "Ten Commandments" of the Parachute Rifleman

1. You are the elite of the German Army. For you, combat shall be fulfillment. You shall seek it out and train yourself to stand any test.

2. Cultivate true comradeship, for together with your comrades you will triumph or die.

3. Be shy of speech and incorruptible. Men act, women chatter; chatter will bring you to the grave.

4. Calm and caution, vigor and determination, valor and a fanatical offensive spirit will make you superior in attack.

5. In facing the foe, ammunition is the most precious thing. He who shoots uselessly, merely to reassure himself, is a man without guts. He is a weakling and does not deserve the title of parachutist.

6. Never surrender. Your honor lies in Victory or Death.

7. Only with good weapons can you have success. So look after them on the principle—First my weapons, then myself.

8. You must grasp the full meaning of an operation so that, should your leader fall by the way, you can carry it out with coolness and caution.

9. Fight chivalrously against an honest foe; armed irregulars deserve no quarter.

10. With your eyes open, keyed up to top pitch, agile as a greyhound, tough as leather, hard as Krupp steel, you will be the embodiment of a German warrior.

That's a lot of BS*.

*Technical term defined here: https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/2631787720929704

 

[daftandbarmy]

Sorry- I am particularly stupid today, obviously, and am not following the bouncing ball very well.

How does a german paratrooper from WW2 inform us today on how to reduce soldier carriage loads?

Indulging in a little literary license... although the 'wise ammunition husbandry' item is directly relevant to logistics.

All else being equal bad, soft troops need more support... good, tough troops need less support.

The quality of our soldiers will (partially) determine how much gear they need to do their jobs effectively, and probably shouldn't be considered separately from logistics.

One small example:

Them: Wait for the trucks so we can drive you to the range.

Me: It's only 5kms, we'll march and get there before the trucks arrive.

Them: But that's 'abuse of troops'.

Me: They're good troops, so I doubt it.