The Canadian Peacekeeping Myth (Merged Topics)

[FSTO]

You forgot the Cold War, FSTO.

I always use it as a good illustration to disillusion civilians of the myth.

I usually tell them that, at the height of our peacekeeping commitments, we had about 2300 people out on peacekeeping. But that at the same time, we had more than 7000 soldiers and airmen deployed in Germany to confront the Soviets, with about 25 000 more ready to go on short notice in Canada, that 10,000 more airmen were involved in keeping the Soviets in check as part of NATO or NORAD, while 10,000 seamen played games on a near daily basis against the Soviet submarines and surface forces.

Then I go for the jugular by concluding that, compared to our daily involvement in the Cold War, peacekeeping was just a side show ... and a side show at that which existed because of its supporting role in the politics of the Cold War.

At that point I usually get blank stares.  :nod:

Oh my! My addled brain. And here I thought I had done a good deed for the day!

 

[larry Strong]

Planning a posting to a certain regiment in Shilo?

You would have to go to Gagetown to have the correct Bn.....


Cheers
Larry

 

[Kirkhill]

The argument seems to be that you can find another 1000 bodies for the UN from the High Readiness Force. My question: if you commit your High Readiness Force to a standing commitment don't you lose your High Readiness Force?

 

[Loachman]

You would have to go to Gagetown to have the correct Bn.....

I am unaware of any Arty Battalions in Gagetown, or anywhere else in Canada.

 

[PuckChaser]

My question: if you commit your High Readiness Force to a standing commitment don't you lose your High Readiness Force?

Don't cloud the issue with facts. Because its CURRENT YEAR!

 

[Old Sweat]

The argument seems to be that you can find another 1000 bodies for the UN from the High Readiness Force. My question: if you commit your High Readiness Force to a standing commitment don't you lose your High Readiness Force?

I actually heard that very argument put forward as a reason for not committing the standby force back in 1972.

 

[Kirkhill]

I can see sending in the Standby Force in a "get in, get out, no mucking about" deployment,  and even there it would be nice if there was a backup unit on deck.  But it strikes me that a continuing engagement, like a long term peace operation, needs to be sourced out of the non-High Readiness troops.

 

[Old Sweat]

I can see sending in the Standby Force in a "get in, get out, no mucking about" deployment,  and even there it would be nice if there was a backup unit on deck.  But it strikes me that a continuing engagement, like a long term peace operation, needs to be sourced out of the non-High Readiness troops.

We did deploy the Standby Force to Cyprus in 1964 where it completed a normal six month tour tour, however it was replaced in the standby role.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Some commentary/analysis on recent events making things lean more toward Mali ...

Canada’s impending peacemaking mission to Africa took on a more urgent tone Thursday night when a Tunisian man drove a truck through crowds enjoying Bastille Day fireworks on Nice’s palm-lined waterfront.

French President Francois Hollande immediately announced that France’s already overstretched armed forces would mobilize 10,000 troops and every member of the army reserves to guard French streets, border crossings and airports.

France needs Canada’s help — and Canada will answer the call. The army and air force will be heavily involved in Africa and no unit more so than the French-speaking brigade built around the Royal 22nd Regiment, known as the Van Doos.

As Postmedia first reported on July 6, the Trudeau government intends to send troops to French West Africa. Mali is their most likely destination, but the Central African Republic and a couple of other nearby countries are in the mix, too.

Ottawa and Paris have been talking for some time about where Canadian soldiers would fit into one of France’s multiple troop deployments there. No date has been set for the mission. The Dutch and the Germans have already been helping France with the United Nations Multidimensional Integrated Stabilization Mission in Mali (MINUSMA). That is because even before the murderous attack in Nice, the Hollande government was having difficulty sustaining the tempo of its African missions as well as operations against the Islamic State in the Middle East and against terrorists on French soil. It is why the RCAF has already spent a lot of time in Africa, using its C-17 Globemasters to provide essential logistical support for French forces.

Canada’s Defence Minister, Harjit Sajjan, had intended to travel to French West Africa next month to help hammer out the details of Canada’s mission there. After France’s latest terror attack, and the call-up of forces to defend France, that trip may have to be moved up ...

op:

 

[Altair]

Some commentary/analysis on recent events making things lean more toward Mali ...op:

Who cares what the french are doing? Right? Right?  :

 

[The Bread Guy]

So on one hand we have the gov't talking up the return to UN peacekeeping, while on the other hand, CBC runs a story discrediting the UN peacekeepters in Haiti.  Just a little bi-polar, no?

"Canada now wants to do more U.N. peacekeeping" and "some peacekeepers appear to have been a**holes" can still both be true.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Who cares what the french are doing? Right? Right?  :

Ah, but the piece I shared talks about what Canada MAY be doing ... 

 

[Altair]

Ah, but the piece I shared talks about what Canada MAY be doing ... 

If we are going to be working with the french I don't think we are going in with blue helmets and ROEs that require 50 percent casualties before responding.

Just my  :2c:

 

[Blackadder1916]

We did deploy the Standby Force to Cyprus in 1964 where it completed a normal six month tour tour, however it was replaced in the standby role.

And now a special report from the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/van-doos-keeping-the-peace-in-cyprus

 

[cavalryman]

And now a special report from the CBC.

http://www.cbc.ca/archives/entry/van-doos-keeping-the-peace-in-cyprus

I'm going to watch that clip carefully.  My dad was on the first Snowgoose rotation in 64.  Maybe I'll see him  >

 

[PuckChaser]

If we are going to be working with the french I don't think we are going in with blue helmets and ROEs that require 50 percent casualties before responding.

Just my  :2c:

That's cute, you think the UN would allow armed response with 50% causalities. Guys were told they needed to find out what side the shooter was on if they took effective (in case you don't know, that means casualties) sniper fire before they could return fire after asking permission in Sniper Alley in UNPROFOR. The same snipers shot at buses full of kids going to school, and no one was allowed to stop it.

Also, big fan on how the Vandoos are the only ones allowed to deploy now because they speak French. First Haiti, now "peacekeeping". Maybe we'll start getting French language courses.

 

[The Bread Guy]

Also, big fan on how the Vandoos are the only ones allowed to deploy now because they speak French. First Haiti, now "peacekeeping". Maybe we'll start getting French language courses.

And if they didn't deploy because missions were in mostly-Anglophone areas, that would be better?

 

[dapaterson]

I actually heard that very argument put forward as a reason for not committing the standby force back in 1972.

Sounds suspiciously like some anecdotal sup techs: If it issue it to you, there won't be any left in stock, and what if someone needs some?

 

[LightFighter]

That's cute, you think the UN would allow armed response with 50% causalities. Guys were told they needed to find out what side the shooter was on if they took effective (in case you don't know, that means casualties or could cause casualties if you don't take cover)

Edited to show the other half of what is effective enemy fire.

 

[Altair]

That's cute, you think the UN would allow armed response with 50% causalities. Guys were told they needed to find out what side the shooter was on if they took effective (in case you don't know, that means casualties) sniper fire before they could return fire after asking permission in Sniper Alley in UNPROFOR. The same snipers shot at buses full of kids going to school, and no one was allowed to stop it.

Also, big fan on how the Vandoos are the only ones allowed to deploy now because they speak French. First Haiti, now "peacekeeping". Maybe we'll start getting French language courses.

Let's go in and help the french then. Problem solved.