The Capital Punishment Debate

[Kat Stevens]

It only takes 6 mA of current across the heart to end a human life.  I do agree with capital punishment, but it is not required to make the offender jump around like a drop of water on a hot griddle.  I'm sure some genius could come up with a more effective, as well as cheaper in these days of soaring electric bills, form of electrocution.  As well, I don't agree with the need to make executions public, seems to be a dangerous return to the days of "bread and circuses" to me.  Just quietly end their lives, and don't give them the attention they seem to think they deserve.  Just take the trash out to the curb, don't make it a parade.  IM(usually wrong)HO...

Kat

 

[old medic]

In 1983, the electrocution of John Evans in Alabama was described by an eyewitness as follows:
"At 8:40 p.m., a third charge of electricity, thirty seconds in duration, was passed through Mr. Evans' body. At 8:44, the doctors pronounced him dead.......  The execution of John Evans took fourteen minutes......

Who?

John Evans and fellow convict Wayne Ritter embarked on a two-month long crime spree involving, by Evans' own admission, over thirty armed robberies, nine kidnappings, and two extortion schemes across seven states. On January 5, 1977 he and Ritter robbed and killed Edward Nassar, a pawn shop owner in Mobile, Alabama while his two young daughters were in the store. The perpetrators fled, but were captured on March 7 by FBI agents in Little Rock, Arkansas. Among the evidence recovered was the gun used to shoot Nassar in the back, and another gun stolen from the pawn shop. 
During the trial, Evans again admitted his crime and stated that he did not feel remorse and that under the same circumstances he would kill again. Furthermore, he threatened that if the jury did not sentence him to death, he would escape and murder each of them.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

So, in Brucie's perfect world, he would have suffered for a few hours more.............

 

[GLOCK 31]

Theres a lot of talk about being humane and caring towards the worst people in our society.  Is there anyone here that wouldn't have killed Hitler before 1939 if they knew what was going to happen?  Well thats murder, but murder to save 6 million + people, and a war that engulfed the entire planet.  On a smaller scale, you hang a convicted child molestor, send him to jail, and when he gets out he does it again.  Now there is a second family, another little girl with her life ruined, and for what?  A convicted child molestor to have a second chance.  

If you wanna read a real example, heres Joseph Edward Duncan III is a prime example of why the death penalty should be implemented. A small quote from the following site is "By August 27, 1997, Duncan had made his way to his half-sister's house in Kansas City, Missouri, where he was arrested for parole violations. He was returned to Washington and sent back to prison, but was released less than three years later. On July 21, 2000, Duncan moved to Fargo, North Dakota.

Realizing that they were dealing with a probable serial killer, the cops found themselves wondering why Duncan had ever been released from prison. He was clearly an example of a habitual offender who had managed to slip through the cracks of the system."

Here is the story of what happened,
http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/joseph_duncan/index.html

He was a convicted child molestor, was released because the law said he had to, and he destroyed another families entire life.  If you look through that site and read some of the other stories, like Albert Fish, who Hannibal was partly based on.  He lured little kids into his apartment and killed them by eating them.  Why should he be allowed to live in a civilized society, when his victims will never even know what its like to reach puberty, and have a family of their own.  But hey, a few years later he's ready to rejoin society, and try again.  But this time he may learn from his mistakes and not get caught again.  And if that wasn't bad enough, he wrote a letter to the children's mom, about how good her children tasted.  There are hundreds of other stories just as disgusting as that one.  

Albert Fish story  http://www.crimelibrary.com/serial_killers/notorious/fish/index.html
Crime Library site  http://www.crimelibrary.com/

Or think about Holly Jones family, and the little girl.  What should her killer get?  10 years in prison to further his education and come out better than before?  Sounds like justice?  Or he could get a Psychology degree like Karla Homolka did, and come out knowing how to manipulate peoples minds.  Since thats what she studied, she could be better at doing what she did now.  I bet their families feel a great justice has been done for the horrible and grotesque murders of their children.  

Police kill all the time.  Shoot a hostage taker when he has a gun to peoples heads.  That is technically murder.  Is there any thought in my mind that taking them out was a bad thing?  No, none what so ever.  The only thing complete pacifists have ever accomplished, is getting concured by those that don't share the same view on life.  Sometimes we have to do what is right, rather than what is easy.  Easy is locking them up for a few years, and when everyone forgets about what happened, let them go again.  Whats right, is executing them, so as to keep society safe.  Execution, because it is going against every moral fiber in ones body, but doing it because it has to be done.

IMHO

Robert

Dog, I have complete respect for your views. So please, don't take my post the wrong way.  I just have a differing point of view.  And both our view may be right, or both wrong, who knows?  I know I would love to live in a world where Capitol Punishment is not necessary.  But unfortunately there are people out there that give us no choice.  

 

[zipperhead_cop]

I couldnt tell if Dog's post about the descriptions of the executions was pro or against the DP?  To us supporters, that sounds like an event you would buy tickets for.
There are plenty of "nice" ways to snuff out someone.  If we got the DP back in Canada, Im sure it would be something like "hugging to death" or "talk to a Liberal until you take your own life".

 

[visitor]

The other topic is locked and I wanted to add the following:
I have never been in the "fog of war",  but I presume it to be messy, complicated,  high  emotion, fast, dangerous,  confusing, etc. Many soldiers do not  choose be in the "fog of war" yet it is where they find themselves. Sometimes they kill.

Many of our criminals are living with brains that leave them in the "fog of war" every day.  FAS, for example destroys a person's ability to consider consequences, to be impulsive and aggressive, to reason logically and to inhibit themselves before they act. Yet these people look normal in every way.

Canada's resources to treat people with FAS and to monitor "at-risk" individuals: mostly nil. 

A culture hopefully  evolves  to be better than it was in the past. We gave up slavery, caste systems, witch burning, etc. each one popular in it's time and defended by the arguments of the day.  Capital punishment decisions should not be made by  popular vote.

 

[Kat Stevens]

Witch burning was a good thing, and should be reinstated, forthwith...fifthwith, even.... :warstory:

 

[Infanteer]

I don't understand how people come onto this issue swinging moral authority like a Baptist minister.  How is sentencing a man to a cage for the rest of his life any less ethical then hanging him by the neck?

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Yes, and dont forget the other things in the past that we have given up on and "evolved" past:  common sense, personal accountability, community spirit.  Just because we don't do something any more doesnt mean that we shouldn't review it and reconsider it.  Learning from past mistakes and adapting is a desireable pursuit, is it not?  The US got rid of the death penalty, tried it for a while and then decided that it would bring it back.  (the US comment is not an attempt to spark off a debate on the plusses or minuses of the American system).  We had, it, and could bring it back.  
And if we have evolved past caste systems and the what not, how is it better for a very small group to decide that they are more enlightened than the unter-mench masses and decide that the majority should not be able to decide it's own path?

 

[TCBF]

"The other topic is locked and I wanted to add the following:
I have never been in the "fog of war",  but I presume it to be messy, complicated,  high  emotion, fast, dangerous,  confusing, etc. Many soldiers do not  choose be in the "fog of war" yet it is where they find themselves. Sometimes they kill.

Many of our criminals are living with brains that leave them in the "fog of war" every day.  FAS, for example destroys a person's ability to consider consequences, to be impulsive and aggressive, to reason logically and to inhibit themselves before they act. Yet these people look normal in every way.

Canada's resources to treat people with FAS and to monitor "at-risk" individuals: mostly nil."

- Which makes it a medical issue.  In ye olde days, we used sanitariums to secure people who were a health risk to others from the general population.  We should do so now, and construct secure sanitariums to centralize the problems untill they can be cured of their psycopathic/sociopathic tendencies.  Just like TB in the old days - you stay in until you get better or die.

 

"A culture hopefully  evolves  to be better than it was in the past. We gave up slavery, caste systems, witch burning, etc. each one popular in it's time and defended by the arguments of the day.  Capital punishment decisions should not be made by  popular vote."


-Disagree, or you end up electing five-year dictatorships of a self perpetuating socialist intellectual elite.  Imagine the outcome of the 1930s had the German people had more of a direct voice in the outcome of major issues, rather than electing a dictator and leaving it at that. 

Also, common sense is destroyed by political and legalistic dogma, and so the direct voice of the people on major issues is needed to reign in the theorists.

If they trust us enough to put them in power, they should trust us enough to have a direct say in major issues.  After all, they work for US.  To have a voice is to be free, to delegate that voice in all matters is to be a slave.

Tom

 

[Old Ranger]

"When the fumes enveloped Don's head he took a quick breath. A few seconds later he again looked in my direction. His face was red and contorted as if he were attempting to fight through tremendous pain. His mouth was pursed shut and his jaw was clenched tight. Don then look several more quick gulps of the fumes.

"At this point Don's body started convulsing violently....His face and body fumed a deep red and the veins in his temple and neck began to bulge until I thought they might explode.

"After about a minute Don's face leaned partially forward, but he was still conscious. Every few seconds he continued to gulp in. He was shuddering uncontrollably and his body was racked with spasms. His head continued to snap back. His hands were clenched.

"After several more manuals, the most violent of the convulsions subsided. At this time the muscles along Don's left arm and back began twitching in a wavelike motion under his skin. Spittle drooled from his mouth.

Are not Blind folds and hoods worn?  How could this writer see his face? :crybaby:

 

[visitor]

Germany evolved the way it did, in part because some members of society were deemed to be less than human and were the target of hate, blamed for the ills of society and scapegoated. Not unlike the view  today that criminals  are to be put to death. This is not to say that criminals are not to be  punished, etc, but  killing the guy that did it, leaves us with a false sense of security that we are dealing with crime.

 

[visitor]

BTW, for those of you who do support the death penalty for violation of our laws,  what is your opinion about the death penalty (stoning, shooting, etc,) in other countries for people who violate their laws or social mores? 

 

[old medic]

That question is too vague and open ended.  You will need to specify which country, and which law and punishment.

 

[TCBF]

The death penulty has to reflect that nation's culture.  So the pistol shot to the back of the head - family pays for the bullet - works for the Chinese.  Other penulties should work as well.

Oh, and for the next obvious question - you commit a crime in another country - I think you should do the time and the punishment THERE, not here in Canada. 

Tom

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

.....anyone who is against capital punishment just needs to spend more time with our inmate population.....trust me, you will be saved!!!!!!

 

[Fishbone Jones]

Well given 'Peace towards men' time of year and all that. I think we'll lock this up for a few days and enjoy the festivities.

 

[Warthor]

I dunno about this death penalty stuff, i mean ya some people flat out deserve it and hearing some stories just gets me angry but there has been times where they've givin someone the death penalty and they've been proven innocent later. People aren't always right, so i think that careful thought should be put into something like killing another human being.

 

[Ex-Dragoon]

Unlocked with the passing of the Christmas season.

 

[Roger]

I don't understand how people come onto this issue swinging moral authority like a Baptist minister.  How is sentencing a man to a cage for the rest of his life any less ethical then hanging him by the neck?

Looks like the moral authority swings both way's.