The Capital Punishment Debate

[ballz]

Here's the link to another thread with an article about a multi-murderer in Canada that we had locked up who was apparently no longer able to continue killing people...

http://forums.army.ca/forums/threads/97872.0.html

There are also a few comments in there which led to me reposting into this thread as to avoid derailing the other one.


So, what do you anti-capital punishment fellows have to say now? He sure managed to kill somebody despite his life sentence, and will do so again anytime he gets the chance, which he will, because as long as he's locked up and not dead, even in solitary confinement, somebody's got to bring him food/water, new linens, etc.

Nobody that comes into contact with him is safe, and he knows they can't really make his punishment any worse right now either.

 

[old medic]

Just to fuel some more debate on this, here's a story from Friday's Sun chain.

Man deemed likely to kill to be set free
By Jason Halstead, QMI Agency
Last Updated: December 3, 2010 5:17pm
http://www.calgarysun.com/news/canada/2010/12/03/16422256.html

WINNIPEG – A convicted killer the National Parole Board says poses an unmanageable risk of violently re-offending will be out of jail before Christmas.

Brent Leask, who stabbed a man to death in a Winnipeg park in 2001 and later deliberately drove a vehicle into a crowd of people while on statutory release in 2006, will serve out his full sentence after the National Parole Board again decided he is too dangerous to release early.

While the board's decision to prevent Leask's statutory release — which had already been denied twice — means the 30-year-old will stay behind bars until his full sentence of eight years and six months expires, it won't mean he'll spend much more time behind bars. His sentence is set to expire Dec. 21.

Leask was initially given a four-year, six-month sentence for manslaughter for fatally stabbing 36-year-old Duane Iwanicki during a fight in 2001, but additional time was added to his prison term after he intentionally crashed a pickup truck into a group of people outside a downtown nightclub in March 2006. He had been freed from prison on statutory release only a month prior to the truck attack, but was promptly returned to custody thereafter.

In the most recent review of Leask's case on Nov. 22, the parole board ruled not to grant statutory release due to his behaviour in prison, which included fighting and manufacturing weapons, and also due to his case managers' assessment that "there are no reasonable conditions by which (he) can be managed in the community."

In its decision, the board also said Leask continues to display a pattern of behaviour that advocates violence and that he is "assessed as likely to commit an offence causing death or serious harm."

Since his last assessment for statutory release one year ago, Leask has added to his already lengthy record of institutional charges, racking up four infractions — two for fighting and two for possession of weapons.

 

[vonGarvin]

Ah, just the perfect Christmas present for our society: a homicidal maniac.  Awesome.

 

[Bruce Monkhouse]

Ah, just the perfect Christmas present for our society: a homicidal maniac.  Awesome.

If it makes ya feel better they get everyday...............naw, I guess it wouldn't.

But they do, most even get out early, unlike this guy.

 

[zipperhead_cop]

Set your calendars for 25 years.  That's when Williams will be out and given a new identity so he can start a new life. 

 

[The Bread Guy]

Interesting idea - methinks someone from PMO may want to discuss this behind closed doors with the Senator (in a Sgt-Maj sort of "counseling" way?)....

A Conservative senator in Ottawa has an unconventional proposal for cutting down prison costs: Give murder convicts a rope in their prison cell, and let them decide whether to hang themselves.

"Basically, every killer should (have) the right to his own rope in his cell. They can decide whether to live," Sen. Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu told reporters Wednesday.

A victims' rights advocate and now a senator, Boisvenu also says the death penalty should be considered in certain cases when there's no hope of rehabilitation.

He says limited use of capital punishment could save money.

He cited the case of the Shafias — the Montrealers who were convicted this week of killing four female family members. Boisvenu estimates that it will cost Canadian taxpayers $10 million to keep them locked up.

He also cited the example of serial-killer Clifford Olson, who was incarcerated for decades before he died.

"In a case as horrible as (Clifford) Olson's, is there really a discussion to be had on this? For people who have no possibility of rehabilitation, people who have killed dozens of women? I don't have much pity for that," he said.

Boisvenu makes it clear, however, that he disagrees with regular use of the death penalty. Canada eliminated capital punishment in 1976.

His comments come following several high-profile prison suicides in Quebec, in which hanging was the suspected cause.

Boisvenu made the remarks today at a Parliament Hill news conference ....

The Canadian Press, 1 Feb 12

CBC French's version of the story, and YouTube video of the statement (or the 9 seconds of sizzle, anyway)

 

[jollyjacktar]

Interesting idea - methinks someone from PMO may want to discuss this behind closed doors with the Senator (in a Sgt-Maj sort of "counseling" way?)....The Canadian Press, 1 Feb 12

CBC French's version of the story, and YouTube video of the statement (or the 9 seconds of sizzle, anyway)

Can't say I disagree with most of his thoughts.

 

[vonGarvin]

The only factual error I could find in that story is that Canada did *not* eliminate the death penalty in 1976.  It was in the scale of punishments in the National Defence Act until 1999, if I'm not mistaken. 

 

[jeffb]

It's not very PC obviously but I think he does have a point. However, the argument shouldn't be a financial one. It doesn't matter how much we have to spend to keep serial killers behind bars, either the death penalty is morally right - and Canada has decided that it is not- or it isn't. There is never a time when ethics and morality should be balanced against cost to society. Now, I don't have a problem with offenders being forced to work while in a correction facility to pay back the cost of their incarceration but that's a whole other thread.

 

[ballz]

I don't disagree with him about much, but we can't even get assisted-suicide legislation for people that terminally ill. If heinous murderers get the "right to die" before the terminally ill, I might just lose my last couple marbles.

 

[Remius]

Hmn.  What about all those people who went to jail for murdering their children because of an incompetent coroner's testimony.  Those people lost everything.  One woman had her kids put up for adoption another's family still won't talk to him, even after having been proven innocent...

Your life is gone, you're accused of murdering the most precious thing in your life (let alone grieving over the loss of a child), you face years if not your whole life in a prison...that rope would be very tempting with all those ingredients.

Irresponsible statement in my view regardless of how valid it may seem.

 

[dogger1936]

Two words:

Gluag Nunavut.

 

[Remius]

Two words:

Gluag Nunavut.

I see one word there.  At least only one that I recognise... ;D

 

[armyvern]

Can't say that I disagree with many of his thoughts either.

However, I'd love to see the DP brought back for cases of rapist murderers of children where clear DNA evidence of guilt exists; I'd even offer up my free services as "hatch-lever puller" and am quite certain that I'd sleep well at night. Alas ...

 

[jollyjacktar]

Can't say that I disagree with many of his thoughts either.

However, I'd love to see the DP brought back for cases of rapist murderers of children where clear DNA evidence of guilt exists; I'd even offer up my free services as "hatch-lever puller" and am quite certain that I'd sleep well at night. Alas ...

Hell has indeed frozen over, I'm agreeing with Vern.  >

 

[mariomike]

"If we execute murderers and there is in fact no deterrent effect, we have killed a bunch of murderers. If we fail to execute murderers, and doing so would in fact have deterred other murders, we have allowed the killing of a bunch of innocent victims. I would much rather risk the former. This, to me, is not a tough call."

John McAdams - Marquette University/Department of Political Science, on deterrence

 

[Remius]

While I disagree with the way he said it he does have a point about certain criminals like Picton, Olsen et al.  i don't even see it as a deterence vs rehabilitation issue.  It is more like getting rid of vermin or a disease.

I can also sympathise with the senator his own daughter was raped and killed.

 

[dogger1936]

His daughter was raped and killed for perspective...

http://www.thestar.com/news/canada/politics/article/1124663--give-murderers-rope-inside-their-prison-cells-tory-senator-says

 

[The Bread Guy]

Following up....

Senator Pierre-Hugues Boisvenu has backtracked from controversial comments he made Wednesday about having ropes in the jail cells of convicted killers that prompted an accusation that the Quebec senator broke the law.

His office issued a statement Wednesday afternoon that said a comment he made earlier in the day to reporters was "inappropriate" and that he regrets not clarifying his views on repeat criminals.

(....)

In the statement from his office, Boisvenu said he was making public views that had been expressed to him by victims of crime about their wishes for serial killers.

He said he wanted to withdraw what he said and that he's sorry if he offended people who have been affected by suicide. Boisvenu, who is also a victim of crime because of the murder of his daughter in 2002, said he believes in rehabilitation.

The statement said he would not be doing any interviews, but Boisvenu did speak to reporters again late Wednesday while he was at the Senate's legal affairs committee.

Despite saying in his statement that he was expressing a view that was expressed to him, he told reporters that his comments earlier were a personal opinion.

He said it was an emotional reaction and that he was not trying to re-open a debate but only giving an opinion and that the media reaction surprised him ....

CBC.ca, 1 Feb 12

 

[GAP]

Change is nice.....he proposed a viable change.....give it a try...........