The Capital Punishment Debate

[exabedtech]

I think it would be quite painless to sentence the truly dangerous to death as was earlier suggested, before it got derailed to include the run of the mill murderer by some here.  Except for the die hard bleeding faint of heart I don't think you'd find too much sympathy among the Canadian populous for the likes Bernardo, Pickton, Olson et al getting their necks adjusted.  And some, like me would be happy for them to be fed into a wood chipper, feet first.  And as for cost, the sooner after the sentence the cheaper the cost to the state.  The truly dangerous offenders out there will not be safely readmitted into society, nor I suggest will they find any worthwhile remorse of their crimes during a lengthy incarceration.  So, what's the point/benefit of incarceration for these creatures?

There are cases like Bernardo and that jackass ex-colonel where the woodchipper would be the preferred option.  Where the 'run of the mill' murderer gets involved is in the cut off.  Which cases exactly should be capital ones and how certain should you be of guilt.  In our system, guilty is guilty whether it were a tough and close decision or a slam dunk.  It is nice when the idiot chooses to videotape everything, but not all of them are so stupid.  We're all aware of high profile  murder cases where the 'guilty' party spend years in jail before being found innocent.  Olsen and Guy-Paul Morin would be judged equally if we choose the sexual exploitation and murder of children as our litmus test for execution.  Russel Williams and David Milgaard would both be judged the same if it were to be sexual deviants who kill their victims.

Yes, there are plenty of wonderful places that choose to execute...North Korea, Cuba, China, United States (some), Uganda, Sudan, Saudi Arabia and a bunch of others.  Missing from this list would be the majority of countries most like our own.

 

[jollyjacktar]

One name for you then... Allan Legere.  Nuff said. :rage:

 

[Jarnhamar]

Which clearly proves the point- murders should be allowed to hang themselves

 

[larry Strong]

Which clearly proves the point- murders should be allowed to hang themselves

However I have serious doubts that with them being the cowards that they are, that most of them would have the intestinal fortitude to follow through with hanging themselves.

 

[GAP]

Oh I hate indecision.....we could help them.....

 

[armyvern]

One name for you then... Allan Legere.  Nuff said. :rage:

Ahhh, yet another name from my past being the Miramichi girl that I am.

...
For the suggestion that DNA be the deciding factor, it's only one piece of evidence, and it only proves that a person's DNA is somewhere.  It does not mean that the person was there.  DNA can travel over space and time to end up somewhere by almost any means. 
...

I'll be very clear here (not necessarily to you) because it seems that some people in this thread have gotten stuck on my mention of DNA. I have never stated that DNA is the only, or the deciding factor, of evidence. But, like it or not, DNA IS indeed the gold standard of such at this point in time scientifically.

For those that keep arguing that DNA can come about to be "in the crime scene" in a variety of manners ... "Duhhhh, I know that!!" BUT, that is what we have trials and defense for in my mind. If you are innocent and there is an innocent explanation for your DNA being on child-rape and murder victim and you find yourself charged and at trial fro such, you get your opportunity to present your dissenting/exonerating evidence; it's not like society would just string you up upon the tree. Jury of your peers and a trial; your chance and opportunity to testify etc. I'm quite OK with that. And, all that is followed by a myriad of appeals before any death sentence would be carried out. I'm quite OK with that too. I'm NOT OK with myself paying to upkeep your murderous child-raping ass after that process has occured. Bye, Bye.

And, being related to one of the co-criminals in Alan Legere's original conviction for the murder and rape/attempted murder in Black River Bridge, having actually drank beers with Alan at the local watering holes, and having actually had a Glendenning directly descended from his original murder victim as my 1st year University room-mate (what are the odds??) and being on post-deployment leave from Namibia in '89 sitting at the farm while the RCMP and military and dogs went through the hunting camps located on grandpie's land after his escape and midst-murder-spree searching for this fucker ... I'd string him up too; myself. And, would sleep soundly each night.

 

[vonGarvin]

And, being related to one of the co-criminals in Alan Legere's original conviction for the murder and rape/attempted murder in Black River Bridge, having actually drank beers with Alan at the local watering holes, and having actually had a Glendenning directly descended from his original murder victim as my 1st year University room-mate (what are the odds??) and being on post-deployment leave from Namibia in '89 sitting at the farm while the RCMP and military and dogs went through the hunting camps located on grandpie's land after his escape and midst-murder-spree searching for this fucker ... I'd string him up too; myself. And, would sleep soundly each night.

Wow....that's quite the history there.  But, such is life in the Mirimichi.  I was in Gagetown when all that was happening up there.  It's all we heard about.  I recall it vividly (though not as vividly as I imagine you do!!!!)

 

[armyvern]

... Olsen and Guy-Paul Morin would be judged equally if we choose the sexual exploitation and murder of children as our litmus test for execution.  Russel Williams and David Milgaard would both be judged the same if it were to be sexual deviants who kill their victims.
...

Hmmmmm, both of whom were exonerated by ... DNA. 'Nuff said about that gold standard that now exists.  :

 

[vonGarvin]

Hmmmmm, both of whom were exonerated by ... DNA. 'Nuff said about that gold standard that now exists.  :

Very good point.  It can be the "linch pin" that clears the air. 

(I was thinking of it tying people TO the crime, not clearing them of it.  Your post sets me straight on that, and NOW I get it) 

 

[armyvern]

Wow....that's quite the history there.  But, such is life in the Mirimichi.  I was in Gagetown when all that was happening up there.  It's all we heard about.  I recall it vividly (though not as vividly as I imagine you do!!!!)

Between that and this guy, I could write a book on my family, but it's been done already.

 

[armyvern]

Bring it back; I'll even volunteer to pull the switch.

Luka Magnotta was mentionned in this thread back in 2010 ... He's now making the news big time once again. Kittens, Body parts, ice picks and videos ...

Previously it was for Karla ...

"She has had so much opportunity to get help in prison," Dr. Van Gijseghem said.
"But if we don't really recognize we have a problem that needs to be changed, how can psychotherapy have some impact?"
Karla Homolka now lives in the Caribean with her new husband Luka Magnotta and four year old son Damien.

Sick little man also has himself a blog:
Necrophiliac Serial Killer

Serial Killer eh? I won't be surprised if that bears out as true in the end. Something tells me that he's got some experience in this. Wonder if She-Devil assisted/lured any one for him. I wouldn't be surprised if it turned out that way either.

 

[YZT580]

Abdullah, you are right on.  Before your time but there was once a PM who advocated for the end of the death penalty, promising that a life sentence meant a life sentence.  I could accept that but it never happens except in extreme cases like Paul Bernardo and even his case comes up for review regularly.  People consider the death penalty as cruel and unusual.  Well so is robbing another of their life.

 

[Colin Parkinson]

Life sentence with regular parole review is a life sentence to the victims families

 

[AbdullahD]

Life sentence with regular parole review is a life sentence to the victims families

https://www.citynews1130.com/2011/07/04/father-of-jamie-cliffs-murder-victim-speaks/

He was family to me, his family and ours grew up as one. Uncle Chris, and Aunty Darlene, never deserved this.

Since then the pos who Murdered Andrew has been appealing amongst other things, trying to get out of jail and they get to be notified of it constantly and have to fight to keep that pos behind bars. Also look at his rap sheep, what hes being doing behind bars etc.

I thought I heard he was a freeman now.. but that may be wrong...

But yeah. Torture is a better description of what they go through.

It isn't fair, they end up costing us more money, the families suffer more etc. A life for a life is justice. We throw out bad apples, bad meat, we put down rabid dogs, why is this different.

Abdullah

 

[mariomike]

For capital punishment debate,

The Capital Punishment Debate
https://army.ca/forums/threads/37415.25
24 pages.

 

[Brad Sallows]

>why is this different.

I'll be blunt: to me, your misery is the price I'm willing to pay to absolutely guarantee no innocent is executed.

 

[Retired AF Guy]

https://www.citynews1130.com/2011/07/04/father-of-jamie-cliffs-murder-victim-speaks/
I thought I heard he was a freeman now.. but that may be wrong...

He was sentenced to 25 years in prison without parole; he is going to be in jail for a few more years.

 

[ballz]

>why is this different.

I'll be blunt: to me, your misery is the price I'm willing to pay to absolutely guarantee no innocent is executed.

Sure but we could at least have a true life sentence instead of this 25 years BS. One where after the normal appeals related to the trial are done, that's it, no more parole hearings, etc. unless there's been something such as new evidence to trigger a possible re-trial / exoneration of the accused.

 

[brihard]

Sure but we could at least have a true life sentence instead of this 25 years BS. One where after the normal appeals related to the trial are done, that's it, no more parole hearings, etc. unless there's been something such as new evidence to trigger a possible re-trial / exoneration of the accused.

That would be acceptable. Or, at a minimum, long term / dangerous offender status should be applied more readily. However the risk of a wrongful execution is absolutely unacceptable.

 

[GAP]

well, at least they have accepted consecutive rather than concurrent sentences